I Treated Dating Like a Sales Funnel (And It Was Unfulfilling)

Sean Weisbrot: Don Finley is the founder of industries, a product development agency that accelerates business' growth through the right level of technology. And I wanted to talk with Don originally about fundraising because he is had a lot of experience with that. But the more we talked in our pre uh, in interview, our intro call, we started getting into relationships and. What I mean by that is the romantic relationships that we as founders may find ourselves in, whether it's a girlfriend, a fling, a wife, husband, boyfriend, whatever. And we devoted a significant amount of the time in our interview to talking about the experiences we've had in our romantic relationships, past, present, and what we hope for the future because. The people that we spend our time with shape who we are and we spend a lot of time with our significant other if we're lucky to have one. And so it's important to talk about those experiences so that we can understand ourselves and understand them and understand how. They make us feel and whether they're taking away our energy or giving us energy and how that affects the businesses that we run. And this was a really meaningful and personal conversation for myself and Don. And whether you're in a relationship now or not, it's really important for you to hear what we have to say because. It may save you in your own business or in your own relationship. Some time, some energy, some money, some headaches, some suffering. I know you're gonna like this. Let's get on with it. So before we were recording, we were talking about just random, random things and we were supposed to talk about fundraising, and then we got to talking about relationships and I said, let's just kind of start recording and see what happens. Uh, because our experience with dating and fundraising seems to be, uh, random for both sides. So. I had mentioned specifically a, a girl I was dating, uh, in Prague and how she was unwilling to call it a relationship despite the fact that I was there for two months paying for Airbnbs and we were going on trips together and we were basically together every day after she finished work and all day on the weekends. It's like pretty sure we're in a, a pretty serious relationship to start with and she just like wasn't willing to call it that. What kind of, uh, ridiculous experience do you think you've had as a, an entrepreneur trying to run your business and date at the same time in the last few years since COVID?

Don Finley: You know, I can, I can definitely tell you the, the situation ships that I've put myself into. Um, sometimes when you look at dating like I do business, um, there was a time period when I basically was like trying to optimize for how many messages I would send on dating apps. To the point where I would get the date right. So I was like, I think I can do this in three messages. And so this is pre COVID and I, the, the dating scene was a little different when I would basically just go on, you know, match with a few people and then there was a sequence of like trying to find a common interest, find the common interest, figure out like a date that could be done around that common interest. And then just basically asking, uh, 'cause my goal was. Let me just try to get off the app as quickly as possible so that I can get to know a person in real life, and that that just led to countless first dates and like you weren't really being selective or I wasn't being selective about who I was going to see. Uh, and additionally because I had, you know, next. The next sale in the pipeline kind of thing. If that first date wasn't all that great, you, you were already moving on to like the next person. So I found dating in that way just to be rather unfulfilling because it was the perpetual sort of like, here's, here's the next thing that's going on, type of atmosphere. Um, as to the situationship though.

Sean Weisbrot: Th that's really funny. It, I've been learning a lot about cold email outreach and I've been doing a lot of prospecting for my, my new business recently. And when you said that, I tried to see if I could get them in three messages to agree to a date, I'm like, that's a three cold, you know, that's a three email sequence. Basically trying to get a business, uh, prospect to get on the phone with you so you could try to close them. That's, that's really funny because I, I've long believed that business and dating are very similar. Um, obviously different in ways, but similar in other ways. So it's really funny that you approach it like that. I never thought of it like that. I've actually stopped using dating apps just because I feel like they're generally. Not good. Um, the, the algorithms have been proven. I've seen many YouTube videos and I've experienced myself. The algorithm's been proven to kind of force men to pay in order to feel like you, you're gonna get any sort of attention. Um, and so I just use meetup.com to go to different events and through these events, I get to meet great women. So like I do ping pong and board games, those are two of the biggest, uh, things that I do on an, uh, recurring basis. There's always women coming to those events, and they're always really cool and they're outgoing and they're fun, and there's, there's no, like, uh, there's nothing weird about it. And so it's easy to, you know, get to chat and get to know them, and then from there, decide if there's something there. And I've, I've had several first dates and second dates from, um, meeting women there. I wouldn't say I'm going to those events because I wanna meet women. I'm going to those events because I enjoy the activity and women just happen to be there. And because we share that interest, there's already something that we can talk about.

Don Finley: And I gotta tell you, I think that's the, the better way to be dating now anyways. Like finding common interests, finding the things that you love to do, and then going out there and doing those things. And then if you meet somebody, you meet somebody. Um, otherwise, like what I was doing was basically just. You know, finding the lowest con common denominator and then trying to build from there instead of like the things that spark joy in my life. And then, you know, seeing if there was somebody else that I could share that with.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. When I was in Asia, I did something like that using the different apps and it's like, oh, you're breathing. Let's, let's have coffee. You're, Hey, I'm breathing, you're breathing. We should meet. Exactly.

Don Finley: This is souls aligned. Yeah. Type of perspective. Um, so yeah, the, the dating scene is definitely interesting. I think the, like you said, the entrepreneurial scene is somewhat similar, right? Like if you're doing cold emails and you're kind of like looking for that right one to be part of your, you know, offer. It's gonna be a, a question of how quickly can you get to know somebody and where are they at?

Sean Weisbrot: Why do you think this, this whole thing called the Situationship is very strange. You know, I've lived outside of America for a very long time, and it seems like it only became a thing after COVID. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. There's a lot of elements of culture in America specifically that I'm not really uh, familiar with anymore, but. I didn't hear the term until two years ago when I first went back to America after COVID, and it just seems like this really dumb thing. It's like you're in a relationship, you're just unwilling to call it that. Why do you think people are, are doing that now?

Don Finley: So let me, let me see if there's any common ground on this because I used to call it like the gray area. There was this part where you like started dating somebody. Then you, you felt like it was moving in that direction of being, you are going to be together, but it just hasn't reached that milestone yet of like actually making it, let's say, official in some way. Like you said, you're dating the person, you're, you may be going on trips, you may have like, you know, the person that you're seeing, but for this short period of time, maybe a couple weeks, maybe a couple of months at the most, it's just in this gray area. Of like, I'm not really sure, but like a situationship, I've heard it used as a term of like, Hey, this is something that we are, we know we're in, you know, you're more than dating, you know, you're not like exclusive and like partnered, but you're in this situationship and both people know it.

Sean Weisbrot: It just sounds like dating. It does. If you're not, if, if you are only seeing that person. Even though you're not saying you're exclusive, but you're not dating other people, that's a relationship. Am I wrong? So why the hell are people calling it a situationship? You're either dating or you're in a relationship or you're not,

Don Finley: and that's why I think it's that gray. I feel like that's the corollary to like how I knew it before, is that gray area of like, you know, that it's either leading towards this or. Basically a fling, right? Like it, it's dating, but like it just fizzles out.

Sean Weisbrot: That's so weird. I it, it didn't, it did, it didn't exist in Asia. In Asia, it was like, you're single or you're in a relationship because no joke in China, if you went on a date. They made the assumption that you were potentially interested in marriage. If you went on a second date, it meant that you wanted to be in a relationship and you wanted to see what was gonna happen if you on a third date. You are almost definitely now in a relationship with that person in a relationship with a serious intent. I. And so my relationships in China moved quite fast, uh, moved quite fast towards being exclusive and living together. Um, I never proposed to, I, I had, uh, I had four girlfriends in China. I never proposed to any of them. I lived with two of them. Okay. The, the girls I lived with, they moved in within the first month, and there's a special reason for that. The first one was because she was actually a coworker of mine and her parents lived an hour away from the company and I lived the building next, uh, I lived one building over and she got fired from the job. Because her boss, her manager, had a crush on me and found out that we had started dating and didn't like it. So she fired her because I, as the foreigner was more important. I was harder to replace than her. So she got fired. I felt bad. We were already dating and I was like, eh, just move in. Like having you live with me is not going to really increase the cost. So I. It's fine. Um, the other one moved in before. We knew each other. She actually was moving to the city from another part of China and I was in a group for couch surfing hosts in that city. And she was asking for someone to let her stay with them so that she could get on her feet in the new city. And I was impressed by what she said. And I said, okay, yeah, I'm happy to let you meet there. And we ended up dating after like the month. So we, she moved, she, she basically was on my couch the first month and then we started dating when we started to spend time together, get to know each other, and then we started dating. Um, and then we started, uh, my first business. What, what was the first business that I started? Um, you know, we started that business together afterwards. Yeah. And we're still friends now, even though we broke up like 10 years ago, or not eight years ago. That's a So have you stayed friends with a number of your exes? I mean, I don't know what your definition of friends is, but like I've got their, it's like the one I just mentioned. Her and I, I'd say we, we chat once a week. I. Um, but mostly because she ended up moving to London and she was married to a guy who's be, who is kind of a monster, and she's now, she's like filing for divorce and so she kind of, when they got married, I was engaged to my now ex-wife and she was like, Hey, you know, uh, I, I can't be your friend anymore. I want to focus on my marriage and like I need to just kind of. Release all my previous ties, and I was like, all right, do your thing. Well, two years later she came back. She's like, no, he forced me to do that. You know, he made me get rid, like delete everyone, all of the men from my life. And he tried to separate me from my family, and he basically, he's a monster. Um, and he, he treated me like a slave in some ways. And so I've been trying to like, help her get out of the situation. Um, and so we've, we've become close again, just in a friendly way. Um. But yeah, I mean there's some, like my ex-wife, she, uh, we are not, we don't talk. Um, so there, there's some, sometimes like the closest relationships,

Don Finley: burnout. Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. There's, there's some, there's some that I'm cool with. Like, um, the first one that I mentioned who got fired, um, because of dating me, we still talk once in a while. She's married with a kid now. Um, they've been together I think like nine or 10 years, something like that. So, but like. There's no, you know, sexual tension. It's, it's like this, I, I care about them like in a familial way now, you know, just like that, that history, you know, that, that time you spent like, I was actually going through with my, um, web designer today 'cause we're, we're just finishing a redesign and a rebrand for, we Live to Build. He, uh, well, obviously we're recording this now in, in October, but it'll get published later. So in October we were dealing with this and, uh, he had said, Hey, you know, maybe we can put some images on the about page. And so I was looking through some of the images. Some of them were from my earliest time in China, which is when I met her. And I saw images of, like, we had gone on multiple trips together and I saw images of us together and I was like, it, it wasn't about. Me missing her, but it was about missing the experience of seeing something new. Like the stuff I experienced in China was just like, I don't think I'll ever experience that anywhere else in the world. It was just so cool the places I got to go and the people I got to see it with. And so I, I kind of got that feeling of nostalgia, but it wasn't really about her. Um, but I thought to send her those pictures and be like, Hey, remember this? So, 'cause like I was talking with a friend of mine and he's living in, uh, Georgia now, the, the state and he's learning how to make his own moonshine. Like he's trying to learn how to make different kinds of, uh, things so that he can be more self-sustaining. I mentioned to him how I had this, um, sweet rice wine from Central China, from this town called Fun Huang Phoenix Town in the Huon Province. And I went to go look for an image that I could show him. 'cause I remember having, taking a picture of this guy's like little distillery in the size, like in a room in his house, in a village in Central China, you know, 14 years ago. And so I showed him the picture and that also the, you know, that and the branding kind of at the same time got me to review these images and, uh, so that kind of did it at the same time. But, but yeah. Uh, I would say the relationships I had in China were quite, uh, fulfilling emotionally, even though I didn't marry any of them. And I find it difficult to date in we in the West, even though I feel like I, I feel like the quality of the relationship could be a lot higher with a Western woman just because a lot of them don't have the same kind of hangups and cultural issues that they do in in Asia. But I also feel like I was able to have very deep relationships and very meaningful relationships with women there. That I feel like it might be harder here because of today's society. Hey, just gimme 10 seconds of your time. I really appreciate you listening to the episode so far and I hope you're loving it. And if you are, I would love to ask you to subscribe to the channel because what we do is a lot of work and every week we bring you a new guest and a new story. And what we do requires so much love. So that we can bring you something amazing and every week we're trying really hard to get better guests that have better stories and improve our ability to tell their stories. So your subscription lets the algorithm know that what we're doing is fantastic and no commitment. It's free to do. And if you don't like what we're doing later on, you can always unsubscribe. And either way, we would love a, like if you don't feel like subscribing at this time. Thank you very much and we'll take you back to the show now.

Don Finley: And I think that today's society on a western culture side has this play of, um, quick serve, right? Like, if I'm not getting exactly what I need from you, I can move on to like the next person kind of thing. And at the same time, like it also creates a, you know, there's, there's quite a heavy, I would say cultural and not imbalance, but. The cultural hangups that we have on the west compared to like what you have with Eastern culture. It's just different. Right. And like you growing up in South Florida, I'm, I grew up in the Midwest and like there's just different hangups that I see here compared to like when I talk to my European friends or my Asian friends about like what dating is like. And like you said about dating in China, it is just. You know, like you said, it's 1, 2, 3, and you're pretty much like on the path to a, a relationship and people can commit into that relationship then because there's basically that understanding. Whereas I don't think we have that solid foundation around like what a relationship is or what the path is in Western culture anymore. And it's kind of freeing, right? Because a relationship can be whatever you really want it to be. Um. At the same time, it takes an effort to build that relationship. 'cause you don't have assumptions that you can make going into it. And I think that makes, you know, some people guarded around how they're actually going for. Um, so one thing that actually, uh, like my girlfriend today, she's, uh, she's from Malaysia, has lived in the United States for the last 10 years, and, um. We actually do an an every six months, like check-in and it's basically like we're committed to the relationship for that, those six months. And like at that six month mark, we determine whether we wanna continue on for another six months. That's interesting. And what it allows is, is it. It creates that container of basically like I am, I am 100% committed to this. And like we run into challenges. There's no easy kind of like exit. And also you kind of understand that both parties are there to fully contribute.

Sean Weisbrot: Is she, uh, Chinese, Malaysian, a Muslim, Malaysian, or Indonesian or, um, uh, Indian Malaysian. Well, she's, or is she a, a native from the east? She's a Chinese. Okay.

Don Finley: No. Yeah, yeah. She's, yeah. I was like, well done naming every, uh, every culture in Malaysia. Well,

Sean Weisbrot: I've been to Malaysia probably like 15 or 20 times. Yeah. And actually one of my best friends is married to, uh, Malaysian, who's not Chinese. She's actually from Sara Walk. So for those of you who don't know about the geography of Malaysia, AK is the eastern part of the country. It's actually physically separated from it. So there's, uh, like the mainland continental area that's connected, uh, to the south of Thailand to the, uh, technically north of Singapore. Um, and then in Indonesia's to the west, separated by a little sea. And then Sara Wack is on the other side. Um, Sara Wack is mostly filled with, uh, tribes, people I. Which is a very different, uh, kind of Malaysia. So Malaysia as a country is a very, very, very interesting because the Brits did a very strange job, which I could spend, I could spend an hour at least just talking about the insanity that is Malaysia. All right. Then the next episode you wanna do on that we'll have may join you. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm happy to talk with her. Does she actually speak Mandarin or Cantonese or She speaks a

Don Finley: little. Her primary is English. Um, so she was very much kind of like part of the, the British, uh, imperialist side of the. The country.

Sean Weisbrot: So her parents or

Don Finley: at least grew up under that influence?

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah, so her parents were born in Malaysia and her grandparents were born in Malaysia. Like the great, great-great grandparents came over like 120, 150 years ago. I believe that's the timeline. Okay, then that makes sense because I've, I, a lot of the ones I've met are more like in the last 60 to a hundred years. Like some of them came for, uh, to get away from the communism. They, they left right before, like 1949. So, um, they still speak Mandarin at home for a lot of them. But yeah, English is the native, anyways, this isn't a, a lecture on Malaysia as a whole, but, um, I find Malaysia very fascinating. I actually have a friend here who's Malaysian and she does like a private chef stuff. So that's how we met. She ended up doing a private meal for, um, like through Meetup. So I went there and had it at an art gallery. Nice. It was like a four course. Uh, ve a vegetarian Malaysian street food style meal, which was really cool. So, so yeah, I'd have a lot to talk about. Um, so how, how long have you guys been together? How did you meet and what was it that made you guys want to be together?

Don Finley: Um, so let's see. So we met on a dating app, um, and she was one of your cold, cold emails? It was,

Sean Weisbrot: no, so this was post, so post pandemic, my strategy changed because meeting up with people became a whole different hassle. Mm-hmm. So you end up going and like having a bit longer conversation through text and then doing either a FaceTime call or a Zoom call.

Don Finley: And the other caveat that, um, was happening is like I live in downtown Philadelphia. Um, Philly is a very walkable city. And like, so like I don't really leave the city unless I'm flying somewhere. And so, uh, or to visit friends who have moved to the suburbs kind of thing and she lives an hour away. I don't know how, but like my settings were always along the lines of like, I am, um, my settings are always along the lines of like, only within five miles would I wanna meet somebody. And so she's, I think 30 miles away. And so I don't know how we matched. Like we hit it off. We started talking and there was this, um, like line item, something that's been very important in my life has been spirituality in the last like five, 10 years. Mm. And so like, she had that on hers and we started a conversation and we kind of like got into that, uh, that way. And then after our, after our second date, we had, um. We got together and I just really enjoyed her company and she looks at the world in an entirely different way than I do. Oh yeah. Uh, and if you are familiar, are you familiar with Myers-Briggs? Yeah. Okay. So basically if you take my, so I'm an ENTJ and Myers-Briggs and like whatever that means, it means she is my shadow. Okay. And so like my, the complete opposite, her cognitive cognitive stack is complete opposite of mine, but it's familiar to me. And so like, and I am also her shadow. And so we have just very different ways of like, looking at things. And at the same time, it's really comfortable. Um, and like I, I do truly feel like I have a partner as I'm like going through this, uh, experience.

Sean Weisbrot: I think that's one of the things that's been difficult for me is because like with both of the, the women in China that I lived with, I felt like I, I had friends with them, I had hobbies with them, I had trips with them. I felt like we were doing well, right? We, we had something enjoyable, but I also felt like I was struggling to see like a life together, a family with them. Yeah. I don't know why I still can't explain it, but, but yeah, I felt like I struggled with that a lot and I. Even in Vietnam, I had, um, this girlfriend, sorry, I only had two relationships in Vietnam. One of them, I met her the first day I arrived. She was actually managing my Airbnb. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, she's cute. Uh, and, and what came out was, Hey, are you doing anything after you like, give me the key to go in. She's like, no. I go, have you had any dinner? She's like, no. I go, great. I'm buying you dinner. She's like, okay.

Don Finley: And then we,

Sean Weisbrot: because it was my first day, I didn't know anything. Very smooth. Yeah. Yeah. And so we went out and had dinner. And then we started dating and I stayed, I was only supposed to stay for a month. I stayed for six. And she had this personality, like her, her English wasn't very good. Um, and it was hard for me to. Really understand how intelligent she was because of that language barrier. All I knew was. If I ever said, Hey, let's go swimming. Okay, hey, let's go bowling. Okay, let's do archery. Okay, let's go meet my friends to, okay. She always was, was down to do anything. Let's do something. Right. She, like, we always were having fun together. You know? It wasn't just one of those, Hey, let's, you know, let's have sex. Like it was a proper relationship. We had good fun. We, we, you know, we're together for six months. Again, she was living with me. Um. Because she was literally working in the next building over, so it was like a two minute walk right. For her. So it was easier. But, and, and there was a point where I actually thought, even though I felt like I was attracted to really intelligent women that were ambitious, I felt like the, this woman is, she's very simple, she's very easygoing, she's very outgoing. She doesn't seem to be terribly intelligent, but maybe you don't need that in a partner. Maybe you just need someone that makes you feel good. And so I was willing to see where it would go, but then she started getting jealous for no reason. I, I've never cheated on anyone. I've never flirted with anyone in front of my partner or behind my partner's back, like it's just. I'm, if I'm fixated on someone, that's it. There's no one else that'll get my attention. But for some reason, she had it in her head that that wasn't the truth, even though there was nothing to give her that suspicion, she started getting jealous and I had to end it. And I was like, if, if you could just control your jealousy, like. I might marry her. Like I, I might have married her if she just chilled out, but I couldn't. Um, and,

Don Finley: and that's a tough one. Yeah. Like jealousy is, uh, it kind of like eats away at a relationship. And even when there's nothing, there's nothing happening. If the party that's getting jealous doesn't recognize that, it's like their emotion that's coming up and like it's coming from them. Then there's nothing you can do to kind of like quail bat jealousy.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. I mean, I was, I was incredibly physically attracted to her and we had a, a great social life and we did a lot of really fun things together. I was totally into her. I probably would've married her. And, and the woman I ended up marrying, we didn't have that level of fun. She was way more intelligent. So we connected much more at a, an, an intellectual level, but we didn't have the same, and she was also very physically attractive, but we didn't have the same sort of physical compatibility, and we didn't have as much fun doing things. And she, she was harder to communicate with, even though her English was incredible. So it's really funny, but the diff, I think one of the main differences was that. Um, the one from before, she was a year younger than me, so I was 32 and she was 31. And then the one I married was 10 years younger than me. So I, there, there might have been a generational difference as well. So, but it's funny you say that. 'cause like I got a,

Don Finley: I got a, a, I'll call him a friend, um, an acquaintance that I know he is the future tribe leader for one of the Amazonian tribes, right? So. And so we met, I don't speak a speak a lick of Portuguese and he doesn't speak any English, but like we had the best of time together because we could literally just communicate through like, you know, hand signals kind of, and like what objects were around. But we knew that like the other person was just fun to be around and like, you know, I had that connection with him, but his mother. I didn't have that same connection with same sort of communication challenge. She knew a little bit more English, but at the same time, like it was just like somebody that I energetically kind of was like drawn to and we just knew that we could play and have fun.

Sean Weisbrot: So because of my, or since my divorce and COVID and moving around and, and having been in Asia for 14 years and now being in Europe, like there's so many things that are different for me that I just find dating here to be very strange and, and. I feel like it's easy to meet someone. It's easy to get their number. It's easy to go on a first date, but it's hard to wanna see them a second time. And I'm not like I, I, this is a business podcast. I'm trying to be as nice as I can and not, and. I think, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not going out there trying to sleep with people. I'm trying to go out there and build a relationship with someone and if I feel like I'm not interested in a second date with them, I'm not even gonna try to get physical. 'cause I just don't wanna waste my time and I don't wanna hurt someone. You know, maybe that per, maybe that's all they want. Maybe they just want. That kind of, you know, short term fun, but that's not what I want. I, you know, I, I want something that's meaningful, like I've had in the past and I've actually thought of going back to Asia for like a six month period just to try and see if I can meet someone else, you know, who, who might wanna come live in Europe.

Don Finley: I mean, it's honestly not a bad idea. And you kind of get a play in the, the territory where it's more comfortable to, to be dating and then have that expectation that it is leading to something meaningful.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. I mean it, I wouldn't have gotten married the first time if I wasn't ready for a family. So, exactly. Someone could go, oh, you got divorced, what happened? And someone else could go, oh, you wanted to get married, you were serious. All right, so maybe you'll do it again. You know, if I can be a good enough partner and

Don Finley: that's. The, the question I ask myself after every relationship is like, what do I need to learn from this? Right? Oh, yeah. Like, or what can I learn? Um, 'cause look, no relationship is perfect and every relationship kind of has its ups and downs and, and both parties contribute to it. And sometimes, you know, like, like I had a, I had a partner who, um. She, she had some challenges and like it ended up being something that like, was, uh, either way it turned out that it was like a substance abuse problem. Mm. And it was more of like an avoidance of it. And she hid it from me for a while. We were living together and it would only come out during like high stress times, kind of. Um, but when I went to address it with her. It became my, my problem that I was creating that caused her to do things that she ended up doing. Yeah. No. And like, that's not acceptable. And at, and, and so you know what you do, like, you love somebody. You, you see if there's any truth in that, right? Like you Holt, whatever it is, that they're kind of like Holt there for you and you go, okay, let me see if there's anything that, like I contribute to this and then you work on. But then it got to the point where I had worked on those things and it was still kind of like, you know, X would happen, Y would happen. It's your fault. Yeah. And so it got to the point where I had to remove myself from the relationship because otherwise she was gonna destroy herself and like hopefully. You know, she, you know, by pulling myself out, she can have a bit of time to reflect upon what she did in that. But then after the relationship, I was able to see how, you know, I was, I was holding onto it and allowing some of these things to occur, not respecting myself by essentially enabling her to, to have the substance problem that she was experiencing.

Sean Weisbrot: So yeah, I wouldn't tolerate that. In fact, when I was early on in my relationship with my now ex-wife, I quit weed 'cause I was smoking weed daily and I quit because she was a lot younger. So I quit for several reasons. One, she was a lot younger and I didn't wanna put her in a situation where she would feel like it was okay to do because it's not good, especially at that age when your brain hasn't fully formed. So I didn't wanna be a bad influence on her. And the second thing was it started to make me feel paranoid. And so I didn't want it in my life because I didn't want to have periods of paranoia that were unnecessary if I just didn't smoke. The paranoia didn't come. And the third was I needed to be, mm-hmm. Present for my team, for my startup. And I just, you know, so those three things were enough for me to say no. Um, I wouldn't have called it Yep. An abuse problem. I never, I didn't, I, I never used weed to like run away from something. I used it to enjoy things, but when you smoke it daily, it's like, oh, I'm gonna go out. Well, if I smoke first, it'll be more fun. Oh, I'm gonna go swimming. Oh, what if I smoke first? The swim will be more fun. If I go, I'm gonna go get a massage. Well, if I smoke first, the massage will be more fun. And, and that's, that's not healthy because you start to, you, you stop appreciating reality. So, yes. Uh, that was like four years ago, and I've smoked maybe like once a year since then. And, and every time I do it, I'm like, no. I'm reminding myself why I, I stopped. So, dude, congratulations. Yeah. I did it daily for like 12 years. Yeah. So it's not good. Oh. Exactly. It's everything in moderation. Exactly. So, and even the girls I dated, like they only smoked because of me and they only smoked like once every few months. And that they were cool with it, but for her I was like, yeah, she's just so much younger. Like when I was younger I didn't think about it, but when I got older I was like, nah, I need to be good for her.

Don Finley: And it's kind of like those are the relationships that I love. Where you actually are self-reflective about like, Hey, who is it? Like there's something. I'm trying to come up with an example at the same time, but you got me thinking about, there's things in my relationship that I, you know, a year ago I would've done different, but now that I'm like in the relationship, I'm thinking, you know what? This is, how do I, how do I want this to be for the partnership and how do I wanna be for the partnership and for this person that's in my life?

Sean Weisbrot: And

Don Finley: so it's a

Sean Weisbrot: nice thought to be having. So would you say of all the relationships you've had, this current one. Uh, is, is she the only Asian that you've dated? No. Okay. No. So did you start only going after Asian women because of a previous experience with an Asian woman? No.

Don Finley: No, no,

Sean Weisbrot: no, no, no,

Don Finley: no. So, um, I've, uh. I've dated a couple of Asian women. I've also dated a couple European women, a couple African women. Like I've kind of, I've gone all over the map except for really South America. I am. I don't know why that is. 'cause they'll eat you a lot. It's just, it's, it's probably true. There was probably some safety there for myself, but at the same time, um. I've, I've dated all around the world and like it's been quite an experience. Um, I definitely do and I, I, I find that I definitely enjoy other cultures because it allows for sort of a comparison to what I grew up in and having that diversity in your own home is, is awesome.

Sean Weisbrot: I always looked at it as my DNA is like I'm quite pure bred. Unfortunately, my family going back at least several hundred years is all Ashkenazi Jew and they're all Polish basically. And so I thought it would be, you know, as a Jew, like we have a very small gene pool, and so in order to protect gen our genetics, it's best to not. Really have pure bred children anymore to, it's better to go and, and mix something in there to keep it, you know, keep the gene pool steady. Otherwise we'll have. You know, like these, uh, uh, royal families with like inbred children, you know, it's just not healthy. They have mental issues, they've got physical issues. I just don't want that for my kids. Um, as well, there's, uh, I'm not sure if you're aware, but, uh, when two Jewish people are going to get married, they have to do a DNA test in order to make sure that they're not carrying for this specific disease called tac because if they carry it, there's a chance that their child will get it. And if the. If a child gets it, they are 100% dead by five. Oh, so I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, well, I mean, it's not my fault. It, it's a, well, no, no, exactly. Yeah. It's, it's a genetic disorder that is carried by some Jewish people. So you have to test, okay. Right. You wouldn't need to really do that test if you were to have children with anyone else. So I always thought if I were to have children with an Asian person, that it would significantly mix up the gene pool in a g in a positive way because it's so different from anything else that like, you know, our gene polls experienced for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. Um. You know, I, and, and the funny thing is I only really discovered I was Polish like a week or so ago. Before that I thought we were German. I've told my, I was told my entire life we're German. Be because my last name is German and I studied German for seven years. I studied abroad in Austria for the summer. Like I went full force into like understanding German Germanic culture and only to find now that it was not the right culture, which is fine because I still like the culture. Um. But then, um, my first thought was, you know, Polish women, they're not so bad. Actually, the, the woman in Prague I dated was Polish, but I didn't know I was Polish at the time. Yeah. Um, so my first thought was, I should go to Poland to next year and spend a month or two there and just kind of check it out because as from what I understand, I'm eligible for the citizenship through ancestry. And yeah. 'cause they have like two rules. One is like your, your, like the, the most recent relative that was born in Poland was born after 1898. And if they became a citizen of another country, it was after their child was born, which is checks for both of those for me. So unless there's anything other. Any other crazy rule I don't know about I'm eligible and so is like my brother and my dad and my aunts and my cousins and all of their kids like, so there's like a bunch of people that are, that would be eligible. So, oh, that's awesome. Yeah, so I wanna explore that. And apparently Poland's this, like really up and coming country, they're putting a lot of effort into high technology and aviation and, and manufacturing and tourism and defense spending and, you know, 'cause they, they've got, uh, Belarus and, and behind Belarus they've got Russia and on on the other side they got Ukraine. And on the northern side they've got Kalin and Grad, which is also owned by Russia. So Poland's kind of boxed in on the, on the eastern front, in the, in the south, the southeastern front, the, you know, that entire side. So they're like, we need to put a lot of effort into building up our, our, um, armies and our economy. And so they're like this really crazy up and coming country. And actually they just had their elections two days ago and the, um, more like center leaning party won. After the Rightwing party was in power for eight years, so, um, I think now is like a really great time to go potentially invest in Poland.

Don Finley: Yeah, actually it's funny you say that, as I was, uh, interviewing another partnership in Poland just the other day as well.

Sean Weisbrot: Where are they? Warsaw Raow.

Don Finley: It's a good question. Um, all I know right now is with Pollen, they have 1600 developers for me. Geez. And so it's a, yeah, it's a decent sized shop. Um, 1600

Sean Weisbrot: is bigger than a decent sized shop.

Don Finley: Yeah, I know. But like you figure, we have, uh, another one of our partners has 10,000 developers. As well. And then we have another 16,000 that we're working with. So it would, you know, it's a good chunk. Yeah. But, yeah. Hmm. Um, so yeah, I think you were asking about like, so she's not the first agent mm-hmm. That I've dated. Um, but I'm, I'm with you as far as like spreading out the gene pool. Uh, I. When I was younger, grew up in Ohio and like we very homogenous town and like I was under the impression that like, hey, maybe I'll marry an Asian girl and we'll have kids because Asians don't get freckles. That's not true and exactly. It's totally not true. I was ignorant to the entire thing. And so the funniest part about it is like my girlfriend has a couple of like freckles as well. So

Sean Weisbrot: Did you like her because she had freckles? Because you're like, damnit, she proved me wrong. Alright, let's see what happens.

Don Finley: No, and let's say I knew, I knew I was wrong. Definitely a while back. Okay. But at the same time, like I do think they're nice and they're, they're very cute freckles.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. I've seen only a few Asian women with freckles and I think they were like. From Hong Kong or Singapore. Yeah. I don't think I've seen freckles in the mainland.

Don Finley: Interesting. Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: And a lot of Singaporean and Malaysian are from that area, from Southern China as well. Yeah. They're more, um, Cantonese. Yeah.

Don Finley: Like they definitely,

Sean Weisbrot: so I'm assuming you've been to Malaysia with her?

Don Finley: I haven't,

Sean Weisbrot: not

Don Finley: yet. Come on. Come on. Why not? Exactly. I know. It's something that we will, we will plan at some point. Um, it's gonna be a fairly big trip, I imagine since it'll be meeting her parents and,

Sean Weisbrot: oh, I didn't say anything about meeting her family.

Don Finley: That's gonna be

Sean Weisbrot: you just go to Malaysia. Malaysia. You should just go and visit and just pretend you're not there.

Don Finley: It may have to do that. Yeah. You But along the same lines, like we've, yeah. It's, it's, her family's in ko. It's a 24 hour trip.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah.

Don Finley: Hmm.

Sean Weisbrot: 24 hour trip. Yes. Family's in kl. Yeah. I've I've done it many times. Exactly. I've said it enough times to not wanna do it again, so. Oh. That's why I like flying to Europe. Yeah. There's something about That's great. Only eight hours. Well,

Don Finley: Europe's so much easier. Eight hours is a great trip length, right? You're in the plane just long enough. But at the same time, the, the flying back to the United States, that trip is always a little terrible. I find the, the trip going there is a red eye. Yes. And so, like you might get some sleep, you're gonna be a little tired. Uh, when it comes to actually like landing. And then you just go take a nap and you know you're good for the day, but when it comes to coming home, you're taking a midday flight and you relive the day twice. That ends up either landing and Exactly.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. Going to China was always crazy because coming from Miami, let's say you're flying Miami to New York, or Miami to Dallas, or Miami to uh, Los Angeles, right? You're one of those three. And from one of those three, you're either flying to Tokyo, to Seoul, to Hong Kong. Or to Singapore, and then from one of those, you're flying to your destination, which for me was almost always uh uh, Shanghai, which then I would have to get on a train and go four hours by high-speed train to Wuhan, or I'd have to, if I flew into Hong Kong, I'd have to go and take the, I'd have to take an hour and a half van across the border in de Sheen or. I would have to fly on to Saigon. And then from Saigon, a second hour, uh, it's like maybe 25 minutes on the back of a motorbike, which was always fun. But yes, for, for me it was always three flights. If I was lucky, it was just three. And there, if not, there was another train or something after that to get into the middle of the country or something. So it, and it was always hard. So like you would leave, let's say in the morning of like a Monday and it's. You arrive the end of like Tuesday night, you like miss an entire day and a half basically. And Exactly. So yes, it's, it's always very difficult and that's why I didn't like to do it so often, but there's people that'll do it all the time. They'll go in for like a week to the US and back and I'm like, I can't.

Don Finley: I

Sean Weisbrot: know

Don Finley: how people do that. I mean, the shortest trip that I've made to Asia, I think is three weeks. Just because that's like, just enough time. Hmm. Yeah. That it doesn't feel too short. But yeah, from

Sean Weisbrot: Asia, I would typically come back to the States for two months minimum. Okay. But. Like, um, in September, I went back to America from Lisbon for 10 days. It was the first time in the last 15 years I've gone to anywhere for less than a month across the ocean because I just don't wanna do it because, like I was in America. I, I flew from Lisbon to Amsterdam, from Amsterdam to Seattle for a wedding in June. And then I, and then I spent six weeks in Florida because I was like, I don't wanna fly back to to Europe after a few days. Then I went back to Europe, stayed for six weeks, and then flew back from Lisbon to Miami. 'cause my grandma just turned 90, my whole family was in town. Like I couldn't miss that, you know? And I was like, I can only stay for 10 days because I. I just don't want to be here for another five or six weeks. Like, I just, I can't, you know, I, I, I need to have a life in Europe. Like when I was in Asia, the flights were so long that I just never wanted to go. So like I properly lived there, you know, nine, 10 months out of the year. But here it's like so easy to go to Italy or to Miami, or to go anywhere. It's like. It's hard to be stable somewhere, which is we, we were talking about earlier is hard for building a relationship with someone because it's so cheap to travel. It's so fast to travel, it's so easy to travel that it's so hard to build a relationship with someone if you're not living in a stable place like I was in Asia.

Don Finley: Yes. Which is also, you know, I'm starting to think of like European Union as essentially a bunch of states. Mm-hmm. And you know, it's not far off, but as far as like travel restrictions go, like you're basically passport control is just pushing you right through. As long as you have that European passport, there

Sean Weisbrot: is no passport control once you've entered.

Don Finley: Oh yeah. I haven't done many country to country trips. Once I've landed in Europe, in all honesty lately,

Sean Weisbrot: so when I fly Oh, that's fantastic. Into Portugal. Okay. I, I get a stamp in, when I fly out of Portugal, I get a stamp out. But if I am on a plane in Portugal and I fly to, let's say Spain, so I'll be flying to Spain in a few weeks. There's no passport control. It's a domestic flight.

Don Finley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, I think that could make it. At least a little easier if you're, you're basically making your home base Portugal. Yeah. And then finding somebody that would be willing or, and able to kind of make those trips with you

Sean Weisbrot: around Europe, or you mean someone somewhere else in Europe who are willing to fly back and forth between different countries? 'cause that's, it's still, I mean, it's, I see.

Don Finley: I like the idea of, of at least having a home. With that person. Right. Like having a home base Similar. Yeah. I think long distance can work for, have you ever done long distance before? Uh, no, I won't. Okay. I've tried it. Yeah. And I don't, I don't think it's the way to go.

Sean Weisbrot: No. I mean, you could consider that like with the girl in Prague, it was long distance just because we spoke for nine months before I met her in person and I, I wasn't, yeah. I wasn't.