I Overcame Addiction and Discovered the SHOCKING Truth About Mental Health

Sean Weisbrot: Greg Sobiech is the founder and CEO of Dell, an analytics first media company that helps drive successful marketing campaigns for clients. They have over 140 employees and they've been doing this business for well over six years. They've been doing this business for 13 years. I wanted to talk with him because he's had a lot of experience in self-reflection and growth and change, and throughout that he is struggled like I. You and me in everything that we do. Being an entrepreneur is a struggle. There's ups, there's downs, there's hockey sticks up, there's hockey sticks down. There's all sorts of ways that your business can go. The only thing that's constant is change. If we wanna survive, if we wanna succeed, we need to find ourselves in different parts of our lifecycle for our business. So in this conversation with Greg, we talked about what his experience has been, how he's changed as the business has grown. I also shared my experience with several companies that I managed or founded, and what I noticed myself, this was a deeper conversation than I'm used to recording. And so I really hope that you enjoy it. You have 140 employees, you've been doing this business for a number of years, and. You say you're always going through the process of change and trying to figure out how you can become more effective as a CEO. At what point in your business did you realize that there was a problem that you, that you were the problem?

Greg Sobiech: I think that when I started to drink five cups of coffee by noon, and I remember my, my wife, uh, walking this was, um. This was maybe six years ago. We were at about 40 people. And, and my wife was asking me, uh, about, uh, why is it that I seem to show symptoms of acid reflux and what could be causing it? And, and I was sort of trying to unpack this for her 'cause we're trying to figure out together, like why is it that I wake up with a raspy voice every morning? Uh, where is all this sort of, uh. Where's all the stress coming from And the five cups of coffee, the black coffee, no sugar by noon, I think was one contributing factor. And then I, and I wanted to connect the five cups of coffee like that, that act of drinking so much coffee to how did it make me behave and. It became pretty clear to me that I could not continue drinking five cups of coffee for, for the rest of my life that wasn't sustainable and that became almost like a symbol of, I'm probably showing up. I was very manic at work. I probably am super obsessed about what we do. I'm probably driving some of my team members crazy. Um, and at the same time. I really care about my team. I really care about the customer. I really want us to do amazing work. So how do I stop drinking five cups of coffee? How do I continue to deliver amazing level of service and create value in the lives of the team and the customer, but change how we operate, especially if we want to continue to scale. So again, those five cups of coffee were assembled for, you know, I can't keep on doing it this way. If I still want to achieve a goal that's very aspirational, like creating value for the team and creating value for, for the customer,

Sean Weisbrot: I had a similar experience, not that the same number of his employee, uh, number of his employees as you, uh, but I started my software company in, uh, middle of 2018, and at the time I was still smoking weed. And I would smoke weed daily, but I wasn't this kind of guy that would smoke a lot of weed. I'd have maybe a hit a day, but it was enough 'cause I, I typically don't have much tolerance to any sort of mind altering substance. So one hit for me might, you know, the, the feeling I get for the length, I'd get it. Someone else might need 3, 4, 5 hits a day, but I would be high most of the day off of that one hit. And it would definitely affect my ability to, to do things. One day I had a call with my advisor and I must have had a second hit that day. I don't know what happened, but he was like, are you, you're slurring your speech. What's going on? Are you okay? And I'm like, no, I need to get off the phone. I ended up quitting weed pretty soon after that. 'cause I was like, I can't keep doing this even though. I don't think, I didn't think it was taking up much of my cognitive ability. Apparently it was taking more than I thought, and that was the only time anyone had ever said to me, oh, you're slurring your speech. But I knew that if I was gonna be serious about running this company and building a team, at the time I had maybe six or seven employees and it ended up growing to 17, but I realized I needed to quit smoking weed. If I was going to have any sort of success in a real company. 'cause the success I'd had before was in consulting and other sort of leaner things where you don't really need to worry about teams and building and all of that. It was mostly just serving the client. So I kind of came to that, uh, again, is very different in a way, but, uh, it's been over four years since I smoked daily. I've had, I've smoked maybe once a year since then, and even then, each time I do it, I'm like, Ugh, why do I do it? Um, mm-hmm. But funny enough, after I quit weed, I started drinking coffee and only because I was living in Vietnam and Vietnamese coffee is delicious, but it's very strong. So I'm now fighting on getting rid of my second cup of day to go down to zero because it's also not good 'cause it affects my sleep. It makes me feel dehydrated. It dries out my eyes. It's almost like weed in a way, but instead of being a downer, it's an upper. Yep. So,

Greg Sobiech: yeah, no, that, that makes sense. And, um, I, I don't know, I don't have a, I haven't unpacked this story of me and coffee. I continue to drink two, three cups of coffee per day. Um, but I, I think what you're, what you're speaking about is the fact that if we want to change something in how we operate, there's some underlying behavior that has to change. And maybe it isn't about, about the behavior, maybe it's about the belief system behind that behavior. So, you know, if I believed that I have to drink coffee to be productive, I'm going to drink coffee or something, I'm doing, going to do something else like that to stimulate myself. Maybe for you, maybe there was some sort of belief that drove. Your desire to smoke, right? That one kind of hit a day. And I think we all have those kinds of hits. It could be coffee, it could be weed, it could be another addiction. Uh, you know, I heard this, this a while back. Someone told me that addiction is something that is stopping us from unpacking our potential. So in a way, I think that for me, those five cups of coffee years ago. Were in some weird way, stopping me from changing my behavior away from being a manic entrepreneur. 'cause I think when you're starting a business, you know, when you have several team members or you know, maybe 10, 20, 30, I think you're still very much an entrepreneur. And I haven't met an entrepreneur who isn't manic and obsessed and uncompromising and just willing to work hard, but. If your, your company starts to get bigger and things get more complex and there are more players, uh, you need to sort of change your belief system. You need to change almost a belief around, do I need those five cups of coffee? Uh, and something has to change. Uh, some, some, but it's for something to change. Some underlying beliefs have to change about how I'm going to operate. It's almost like you need a shift in your operating system. And whether it's coffee or weed or, you know, maybe it's not, not having the attention span to be present with your children or neglecting relationships with friends who you care about or, you know, working well on vacation, which is denies the whole idea of a vacation. It's not a vacation in the case. You know, these symptoms that one experiences, um, have to be treated as just symptoms. There is a deeper underlying cause. There's a deeper underlying sort of belief that may be limiting us from redefining what I need to do to move to the next phase.

Sean Weisbrot: So I got started with weed when I first moved to China, and it was because of some friends I had made. They were from Australia and they smoked weed a lot, and so they introduced me to it. So throughout my twenties, it kind of was just a habit. It was like something you do when you get together with your friends, but then it was also something you could do when you were alone. Uh, and then it became this thing that I didn't need. So if I quit, I didn't, it didn't bother me, but. If I did it, it would make everything I was about to do much better. You're gonna go to the gym, you're gonna feel great. Your muscles won't fatigue as fast. You're gonna go swim. The water's gonna feel great on your skin. You're gonna go watch a movie. The movie's gonna be funnier or scarier, right? So it, it became this thing that made life more interesting and I realized that that's not good. Because it ruins like reality. It ruins sobriety because if you can't enjoy what you're doing, unless you're high, then that's not fair to the people that you're with. If you're not able to be present. I don't know if you've ever smoked weed, but when, when I smoked, I felt like I was, there was like this fogginess separating me from reality. And in a way I felt like it made me a more emotional person in a good way, like more emotionally present, but also cognitively less present. So there were some positive things about it. I think it made me funnier, more relaxed, but it also, I think, negatively impacted my ability to be present for the people in my life, which is very important for me. And. Yeah, I, I recognized that it wasn't good and I was in a relationship with someone, uh, younger than me. So I realized that it wasn't, it was important for me to be a good role model for her and the whole thing with my company. So there was a number of factors that was like, whoa. Yeah, actually. And, and so it was actually, when I made those connections, it was immediate. I was like, I'm done. And I quit. And, and that was it. I didn't go back. It was very easy. Um, coffee. Is very, a very different kind of addiction. I've tried so many times to get off coffee, and yet I keep going back. I don't know. You said you've gone down from five to, to two or three. It seems like you've been able to figure that out, kind of, but how is it, how is it now for you?

Greg Sobiech: Yeah, I mean, look, look, um, I think it's obvious that, you know, we're talking about something like coffee or, or, or weed as. Just symptoms of something deeper. And I think for me right now, you know, I've actually accepted the fact that I love coffee and it gives me something right now that helps me continue to be, uh, for example, focused like I've redefined coffee as a fuel to be manic and obsessed. Today, coffee for me and I drink less of it, but I don't think I will stop because I've been able to redefine the role of coffee as a a, a drug, an addiction that seems to actually serve a purpose that doesn't block me from. Being a better leader doesn't block me from being a more focused father, a better husband, better friend, um, better teammate to my team at work. It doesn't, I don't think it does. Just like, you know, one could say obsessive exercise can be a blocker, but in the right dose and when properly perceived, it's, it's good, you know, being outside and loving the outdoors every day for many hours. Again, that's hard to afford for anyone unless you're an architect explorer. But for normal people, like, like, like me, um, I need an appropriate dose of being outdoors and, and this example keeps on going, right? Anything can be an addiction, but also I think anything when it's the right thing can be very helpful. And what I've experienced is that when. I want to become a different person. It's really less about the things that I use or people I'm with. It's really about more about like understanding why do I do what I do, and then redefining where I want to go towards how do I want, who do I want to be as a human being in different relationships? It really has nothing to do with, with coffee or weed. Like maybe it's actually okay to, you know, have a, a joint every night as a leader, uh, if that's what you need to do and if when you wake up, that's gone from your system. But it's more about the mindset being, having clarity. About where I'm going and it's almost the phrase I use a lot is what got me to today will not get me to tomorrow. So for me it was less about coffee, it was more about the mindset I had when we were at 40 people versus a mindset that I have today at 140 and we're growing at 20, 30% year over year. So, you know, if we are 300 people in 45 years, which is what it should be, um. To get there, I will still have to yet again redefine my mindset. I think we go through these phases, right? As we want to unpack our possibilities more and more. There are these absolutely, these, you know, ceilings, right? We have to break through in order to get there. And so again, for me it's more about the mindset and, and how everything flows from that actions, results. Um, but you know, maybe it's okay to drink coffee throughout the whole process because now I see coffee differently in on the journey.

Sean Weisbrot: So I naturally have a tremendous amount of energy, and so I feel like I don't even need caffeine to get anything done. I don't need it for clarity. I don't need it for focus. I don't need it at all. I just became addicted to it. And when I'm on it, I feel dehydrated. And when I wake up in the morning, I feel sleepy. I feel, I feel groggy, I feel low energy, and yet I continue to drink it despite trying to get off of it. So it's really a, a struggle in a way. But I want to kind of talk a little bit more about the, the change as your company grows. So, as I said before, yeah, I've never owned a company that had more than 17 people. I have been a manager for a company that had 18 people, and another company that had 25 people. And. One of them was nearly a million dollars a year in revenue. The other one was like probably a million and a half. So they're smaller companies than yours. And for the ones that I was a manager, I tried really hard to get the founders to like step back because they were the reason why the company wasn't as successful as it could have been. And I recognized that, you know, the, the last time I was a manager for someone else's company was 10 years ago. 11 years ago, and I recognized that in my mid twenties before I had even owned my own company, I recognized that after all this time, I've had the pleasure of knowing many CEOs that have run companies of your size and even larger. And I've been able to talk to all of them about their experiences running companies. And some of them look at this change that they need to go, uh, through at a specific revenue. Annual revenue. Some of them look at it as a certain number of customers, some of 'em look at a certain number of employees. So it's interesting to see how everyone has their own way of doing it. Um, the steps that I've kind of heard, no matter how they look at it, is you start off as the operator, right? It's your baby, it's your idea, your serving customers, your, uh, you know, finding customers, you're doing all of the work. And at some point, which I say is about 30,000, $40,000 a month. You are hiring people to start serving customers so that you can focus on finding more customers. Mm-hmm. And then eventually you start to hire people that help you to find more customers. So now you've got people finding and serving so that you can focus on how do I take the money and, and do more. And, and then at some point you start to have leadership that are managing the people that are providing the services. And then you start to have leadership that are managing the managers and, and, and things like that.

Greg Sobiech: Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: I've heard numbers like all around a million. You should have like managers at 5 million, you should have managers of managers at 10 million you should have your exec team. So I don't know what, what your experience has been. I'm kind of curious to see if any of that lines up for you or, or what it's been.

Greg Sobiech: Yeah. Um, I hear what you're saying and you know, if the question is, how I hear what you're sharing is how does one as a founder have to. Adjust to the reality of a growing business and what do you focus on? And a big thing that I, I see I've seen in my own life and I see with other, other founders, you know, uh, just people that I know in the industry or other people who have all kinds of businesses, is that there is a totally different personality that one has as a founder, entrepreneur. Versus an operator. And I think, and there are many different, there are many ways to describe what, who, who is a founder versus who is an operator or who is a founder versus who is a CEO. One of the definitions that I believe in is there is a huge difference between getting to goals and accomplishing things on your own. Which is what entrepreneurs have to do. And I don't care if it's, you know, five people or even, I think even 40, 50 people, you're still very much wearing that entrepreneurial, um, you know, the entrepreneurial, um, hat. But at some point, whether, you know, once you start having managers and managers of managers, like you said. You have to redefine your mindset towards, I need to get to, to go, to get to my goals through others. And this idea of getting to my goals through others so complex because it isn't about staying up, it isn't about, you know, working harder, being more intense. Right. The working on the weekend, and I do believe that certain individuals. Are like productive X times more than others, right? Like someone who works 70 hours a week and is all in, they may be five times more productive. Someone who isn't all in. And you hear the stories about software, especially like, you know, a great developer is worth 10 times a mediocre developer, right? That's like a classic example and I, and I, I would imagine it's true. I think that applies to other parts of life. But my point is there comes a time where. As an entrepreneur, you can't even, if your X times more productive, even if you drive X times more value, you're going to tap out. And you won't be able to, and even if you could sustain it, you won't be able to sustain it for X number of years more.

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Greg Sobiech: So then what do you do? Well, you have to get to your goals through others. And this idea of, of, uh, coaching people. Having job, job role clarity. Like, here's what you're here to do. Uh, even that alone, by the way, this is like entrepreneurialship one-on-one. There's a framework that we use here called entrepreneurial operating system BOS. Right, right. People in the right seats. I can't tell you how many for how many years after knowing what that, that, that, that, that is a thing like no, intellectually. That's a thing that I should be doing. I had a hard time embracing, and I, and it we, and we went through a number of cycles where we would create job descriptions and really talk about what makes for the job, good job description, and how do I hire people for that, jd how do I not just like, you know, manage, but actually lead people towards shining in the context on that role. And again, an, an entrepreneur doesn't think this way because an entrepreneur just gets, does everything. And there is no jd and, and many entrepreneurs love that. 'cause I, I can decide to be financed today and sales tomorrow and then work on the website the day after. And it's fun and it's intoxicating, right? But the moment you start to get to your goals through others, like you have to just redefine how you operate to serve your team and to serve the customer. So, you know, that's what I'm hearing, that there are these, like just what one could say boring things like, you know, role clarity and yet they are. I think as in a way, as beautiful and sort of amazing as waking up every day at 5:00 AM to work out is amazing in some ways, and it's also boring in other ways. It's kind of both and it's okay.

Sean Weisbrot: So I definitely endured that with my software company as well, my COO and I would sometimes clash over what our roles were in a way because he'd say, well, you know, am I supposed to be doing that or are you supposed to be doing that? He is like, uh, and, and then there was even this other issue where I was acting as a quality control, like a software tester, right? Because it was, it was my product. So I was testing each new feature as it was being developed by the developer to make sure before it went into the production, that it worked the way it was intended to. And so we had a CTO and we had a QA manager. And sometimes I'd be talking to the QA manager as the CEO, and sometimes I'd be talking to the QA manager as a tester. And so if I would go to them as a tester, there might be issues that the CTO would have to deal with. Or if I wanted to talk to him as the CEO, my COO might force me to talk to the CTO first and have the CTO talk to the Q QA manager about this thing. Like, like I might as a tester go, Hey, this the, I, I found this thing as the CEO go. The, the problem with this is the feature specifications don't match what's actually happening. The CTO would then get upset because I went to the QA manager and not him. So there was, there were problems that we encountered because we were a small, you know, only 17 people. So it is quite small. Um, so yeah, we, we encountered, I don't know if you've encountered any issues like that in the past.

Greg Sobiech: Well, I, I think what you're, yeah, no, I, I, this resonates. I think what you're describing is that, uh, I think, uh, often entrepreneurs are, you know, you have to be a visionary. You have to make sure you have the right product market fit. You have to make sure that you are clear about what's unique about you, and who do you need to have on your team who are also unique to deliver that unique value proposition. Even this just whole idea of. Like, we are not for everyone and everyone isn't for us. You know, the friends you have, the friends I have who we want to spend the rest of our life with. You know, where we choose to work, where we choose to live. Like we are making choices every day. We're saying no and we're saying yes every day. Uh, and that's no different from running a company and saying, here's who we're going to be from a vision perspective, and here's who we will not be. And so that, that's a, that's a thing to do. That's called strategy vision, go to market fit. That's a role of A CEO and founder. Both have to have that clarity. But then to your point, right, if I am running, also finance, if I'm running marketing, if I'm running, you know, uh, my client advisory group, if I'm running my data team or technology team, uh, checking, checking JavaScript to make sure something is implemented properly, it's confusing for me and it's confusing for the team. So it's hard, I think, for. Entrepreneurs to say, I no longer will be in this seat. Because at that point you actually become dependent or interdependent on someone else to get the job done. And it's scary to let, let that control out of your hands. But the only way to make sure that you know what you need to do and what others need to do, so that together you operate as a highly functioning team, is to make sure that you stay in your lane. You're held accountable to what you are overseeing and that the key members of your team and people that report to them also know where they're going. Like you need to have that sort of, uh, division of responsibilities defined. But again, I've gone through this and I, I'm no longer there. But I remember several years ago kind of resisting that type of rigorous thinking. It seemed to me like it's so rigorous. And yet, you know, you look at any sports team, you have offense, defense, right? You have different players playing different roles on the field, and the roles of the game are well defined, and no one complains about that. That's, that's, see, that's clear. You're in a classroom, there's a teacher and there are students, right? Like in socially. We all have different roles. A teacher, you know, fireman, right? You know, uh, a coffee maker, uh, a restaurant server, right? Dad, mom, like, we have these defined roles everywhere else in our life all over. So why would I not accept that? That's a thing that's real in business as I'm building that business up. Role clarity is absolutely important. Um, but it takes, you know, back to what I said earlier and when we started, it takes a several level cer, cer certain level of consciousness, like what I just said, has to just simply resonate for that to be implemented. And that that's, you know, that's a journey that kind of happens in the background, right? Um, I mean, oh, you know, every action and every result is a function of some beliefs. And where do those beliefs come from, from some experiences? All kinds of experiences, whether I, you know, who my parents were to, who my friends were, to what I have myself experienced. So, you know, for me, this transition from, from an entrepreneur to, uh, a, a highly functioning CEO, which is always a work in progress, um, has been not much about the mechanics of like a job description as it is about the change in my own belief system about what's needed right now. What's holding me back from embracing some new beliefs and also letting go of some old beliefs.

Sean Weisbrot: So then how would you say you're spending your days in the company now?

Greg Sobiech: Yeah, great question. Um, definitely, definitely. You know, it's always a mix, right? Even at 140 people, you know, because we, we are growing quickly. I think what we do resonates and I think we provide truly exceptional value to our clients. Um. That's, that's, that is being seen and we have a good pipeline of new business and, and things to work on. Um, and I would love to tell you that, you know, I spend most of my days sort of in, in the magical la la lt of just, you know, meeting with key leaders and making sure that I ask them these three questions. And what I love to ask is like, what's happening? What are you struggling with? How can I help? That's the nirvana, right, of leadership to be able to ask those three questions and spend sort of the day, you know, on the mountain, on mountain Zeus, right? In some magical castle, you know, looking down at the horizon and sort of, um, being a sage to my team. And, and, and that does happen. In terms of, you know, being a coach and, and being supportive and making sure we stay aligned. Uh, but absolutely there is still a good number of, uh, very sort of transactional day-to-day things that have to get done. Like, you know, running a monthly meeting to look at last month's results and look at the forecast, three month forecast. Like that's something that I'm running right now. And yeah. Is it, is it transactional and tactical? Sure. Eventually I won't need to do it, but I do have to. Someone has to do it right now and you know, we all have limited time, energy, and also resources, right? The business generates only so much money. So if I want to continue to make sure that we have money to reinvest back in the business, like I have to also pick up the slack on some, on some items and be sort of both in a role, let's say, of a CFO. But also in the seat of A CEO. But to your earlier point, what I'll always, uh, and I like how you said, you know, kind of the quality assurance example. Like are you the technician or are you this, are you the CEO? If that's, if I remember you correctly. And what I try to do is I try to make sure I tell my team, look, I'm right now operating the role of A CFO and I'm talking as A CFO, and now I'm actually A CEO. And it is a little schizophrenic, by the way. Like it's not. I think ultimately sustainable. But, but here's the thing, when you're growing a business, um, you kind of, there's lots of ambiguity and I think it's okay to give oneself permission to say, you know what? I, as a human being, am going to occupy several roles, but I'll be very explicit about it. But I mean, these seeds, because by the way, just leaning back on EOS, as a framework, it's okay to have one person in several roles. That's permissible. It's not okay to have two people in the same role. That's like, that's terrible. So is that optimal? No. But is it okay? I think it's okay. Especially as you're growing and you know, bringing people on board, they can also ultimately take those seats away from you. So you do fewer things. Well,

Sean Weisbrot: I always enjoyed the point at which someone would take something off my plate

Greg Sobiech: and I think, who wouldn't? I know. I, I, that's, that is amazing. I agree. I

Sean Weisbrot: think my COO and CTO were also very happy every time something was taken off my plate. 'cause they're like, you're really good at like PR and marketing and sales. You're a great mask on for the company. And you have a great vision, but when it comes to the nuance of developing the product, it's not your strong suit, even though it's your baby. We get it. Yeah. But like there's people who are professional who can do that job better than you. You've done a great job building a foundation, but we need someone to take that away from you.

Greg Sobiech: Right. That's, this is classic, by the way. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. And they're

Sean Weisbrot: like, and we, we need someone to stop you from designing the screens because you're not a UX expert. I go, I have a degree in psychology. I understand I'm not a UX expert, but there is nobody else. And they're like, and you need to stop being a QA tester. I'm like, I get it. Like I, I love doing these things, but they're a massive, you know, time suck really. Um. So, yeah, I was happy when people took it off my plate. 'cause I was like, yes, now I don't have to design anymore and I don't have to test anymore and I don't have to do product anymore.

Greg Sobiech: I loved it. Yeah, I mean, you know, this, this, this is a great example and, and, um, how this resonates is that I think to be an entrepreneur you have to be sort of both very critical of yourself, uh, and also confident that you can do anything. I, I, again, you know, myself included and many entrepreneurs that I know are very critical of themselves. Yeah. And they have worthiness issues, and yet they also believe that they can do it. It's, it's a, it's a weird paradox. Yeah. And I think that when you're starting a company and you're having to do all things and you don't actually objectively have anyone telling you if you're doing them well or not. You're getting them done. You're billing, you know, you're doing marketing, right? You're doing delivery, uh, you are making sure collections are there. You are, um, maintaining some social presence, whatever it is that you need to do to kind of get the business to deliver on your promises. And then to upsell clients to new services. Those are basically the three main revenue streams, right? New, existing and upsell. Um. Because you've done all these things at the very beginning. You've been in all these roles. I know. I used to believe that I'm really good in all those things. And then you realize to your point, well maybe I'm actually just really good at finance, or maybe I'm just really good at, you know, marketing or maybe I'm good at being a mascot, to your point, or a visionary. And it's hard to admit that these other things I am not great at. Um, and other people have dedicated their whole careers to be to being amazing. At these specific functional areas. But again, that goes back to the belief system, right? I, I, if I don't believe that others are truly better, then I will continue to be that limiting factor. Like you said, I mean, often the founder is the limiting factor to growing the company because she thinks that she can do it all. Um. Versus again, I think the big shift for me has been it's okay, I need a team to get to the next phase of growth and I need to focus on, and that's what I think you're saying. I need to focus on doing what I am best at and then do things that others and, and get others to do things that there we get best at. And, but they, it comes with a sacrifice. And the sacrifice is, I have to accept that this one thing on these five things. I'll no longer do and they will no longer be in my jd. And there, you know, there's, that's something to be mourned almost. It's something to be sort of, uh. Put behind. Um, that's a, again, that's a tough type psychological shift to go through.

Sean Weisbrot: I don't think I had that issue because I am, I'm very confident in myself, but in that confidence, I am self-aware enough to know that I'm not great at anything. My superpower is being able to learn anything to a level that I can start anything. But to make that thing good, I need someone else's help.

Greg Sobiech: So you're saying, yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, it's almost like being resourceful, right? You have to be resourceful and you have to have a level of, of, uh, proficiency. Yeah. Something. That's why I like doing

Sean Weisbrot: consulting because as a consultant, like my value is in connecting people. I. Right. I have a partner network. Mm-hmm. They provide services. There's a service that I can provide because I'm great at that thing, but there's a number of other services that I can't provide, I'm not interested in providing, but they can provide it and I can build relationship with them and I can bring clients to them and therefore that's how I make money. And I'm really great at that. And, and I like that. I thought I wanted a software company. I thought I wanted to have tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars in funding and, and thousands of employees. It's not who I am, it's not what I want. I went through it, I tried, it didn't work for me, and, and I liked that it was a struggle. I'm still dealing with the, with that psychologically, but it was an experience that I needed. 'cause it's, I thought it's what I wanted and I realized that I didn't.

Greg Sobiech: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and, and look, uh, maybe, you know, you have, uh, a really high sense of like, just lots of reflection that may, you probably went through to understand who you're, who you are and who you're not. Um, and I think it's absolutely true that there is like a magical person role fit. There are other things that we can do proficiently, but maybe we aren't great at, and there are other things that we're just terrible at. And yeah, this idea of, let me just do what I'm really best at and then have a team that wants to row in the direction together with me. But we all occupy different roles on the journey. I think that's the, the North Star. Absolutely. I think that's how a highly functioning team operates and how a highly functioning company operates. It's scalable, sustainable, uh, but there's also lots of gray in that process. Uh, there's lots of their times when, you know, someone leaves or someone gets sick or something changes. And as much as I, you know, want to be in a one role. I deserve to be in that one role because that's my area of greatness. Like there, there are times when we all have to pick up other pieces and put ourselves in other roles. Um, so you know, these theories and these, these are practical things I went through that I'm sharing. I think there are valid and true. But there's also so much like situational, so many situational adjustments that have to be made. Like one of the things I've learned over the last 12 years running my own business is that there's no one, like advice is kind of terrible, uh, because people bringing their own bias and they forget to ask and understand like where you are at, and you really have to be careful to adjust what you believe to be true as a way to operate to. A situation where that, what's called advice is appropriate for, so this's also all quite complex, right? And, and, and just, it, it, there's like a big, and it depends attached to all of this.