How to Build and Manage a 15-Company Business Empire

Sean Weisbrot: Welcome back to another episode of the We Live To Build podcast. This is episode number 99 with Irakli Litanishvali, the founder of the Aim of Emperor Group, which consists of 15 companies and over 250 employees across charter brokerage, international aircraft handling aircraft, helicopter and yacht sales and acquisition, as well as travel and marketing divisions.

Sean Weisbrot: One of Irakli's companies, which we'll discuss in this episode, MIH Flights just raised a $3 million seed round, so congratulations to Irakli. What's interesting about this investment is that it's their first venture into it, and the first time they've taken money from outside of their own group of people running the companies.

Sean Weisbrot: In this episode, we also talk about how the pandemic has changed the way people travel, pushing them towards private planes, how society is changing, where a larger group of people are making money and therefore spending them on more luxury. Travel and goods, as well as the future of travel in terms of how planes are changing into electric, as well as helicopters and, and yachts as well.

Sean Weisbrot: Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today. Acholi. I know that you're involved in aviation and you run a group of companies. I'm really excited to hear more about how you got started with your first company and how you eventually developed a group of companies so that people can understand what it's like, at that scale.

Sean Weisbrot: Why don't you tell everyone a little bit more about your group and how you got started.

Irakli Litanishvili: I'm born in Georgia, and then graduated from one of the technical universities there. I moved down to London, did my master's degree and started my career as a broker selling charters for clients from a small office in London. Later on, operating companies in the UK started to look after the commercial part of this business. bringing some more clients, down to the AOC in uk.

Irakli Litanishvili: After five years, I decided to move on and start my own business, you know, from the management company of aircraft as an asset. Then I set up my brokerage company, where I put all the aircraft, which were under my group's control. Later on we had some other divisions like, fuel and handling. Then I've got the dealership for the Honda Jet. Former Soviet Union countries and in 2019 we decided that we should go digital and we set up the company called me Lights, which today presents a service to book your private jet or any jet which you would like the same way as Uber or, or any other leads or any other companies who provide mobility service today.

Irakli Litanishvili: Divisions. One is aviation, the second one is fuel and handling. And it, and my company employs more than 250 people right now. Headquarters in London, Malta, Cyprus. We have other lots of representative offices in different parts of the world. And we have 20 aircraft under our management. Eight helicopters and all these now go into the digital world.

Sean Weisbrot: You said that you got your start by selling airline tickets, right? Trying to help people book..

Irakli Litanishvili: Yes. Book the private jet. That means I've got a phone call and someone says, okay, I would like to fly. My job was to contact the operators to agree on the price and then add my margin on top and sell it to the customer. Then all the coordination was on my side. Coordination team met the client in London Airport saying Hello. Shake the hand. Flowers to the ladies, chocolates to the kids, you know, and saying, have a nice trip with a nice catering on board with all these, luxury, standards.

Irakli Litanishvili: That was my first step into the private jets, industry or aviation industry for the highly wealthy individual people.

Sean Weisbrot: What made you want to focus on aviation? Going back all of those years?

Irakli Litanishvili: You know, I think aviation. Luxury or highly wealthy people because I think aviation should be our, one of our tools like you have today, cars, trains, you know, but also the private jet should be, the way the people can.

Irakli Litanishvili: Easily plan their trip. Not really stick to the scheduled airlines because you know, something happens or you would like to have some other time of departure. Some smaller airports, you know, it gives you a little bit more flexibility. And this flexibility should be also available for quite a big audience.

Irakli Litanishvili: You know, not only high level income people, but also the top management, middle management, and how many times you go for holiday, let's say. Twice a year,

Sean Weisbrot: Are you asking me specifically?

Irakli Litanishvili: Yeah. For example..

Sean Weisbrot: Before COVID I would usually go on like a long trip. So in 2019 I did like a four month trip. I went over land and sea and by air to different countries in a nearby area. But then outside of those, that time, I pretty much was like in one space for the rest of the,

Irakli Litanishvili: Okay, let's imagine you do quite a big trip, you know, and you would like to cover lots of destinations, let's say in Europe, for example. Yeah. And you would like to do these small trips between Vienna or Budapest or Nice or Kahan, you know, and you would like to have a small jet, which takes you with your friends.

Irakli Litanishvili: It's about 2, 3, 4 people you know, and you spend not a lot of money. But you put in the money, which really gives you the comfort and level of traveling. That means, for example, today via our app, you know, we sell small trips up to between three to 5,000 euros, which might be affordable. If you spend a lot of time, you work, you earn some money, you know, and in the end, you would also like to get some kind quality service or quality holiday.

Irakli Litanishvili: For example, when you have a chance to go with your friend for some operation in Paris, but you are at that particular time, let's say in Barcelona, you don't have the tickets. You know, you don't have to spend a lot of time, you know, to plan your trip. You just easily get it. It's like a taxi, you know, and you press the button.

Irakli Litanishvili: You have an option. You fly there for the opera and then go back. This was my idea, you know, that I need to change something. You know? I wish that aviation, even private ones, also contribute to the environmental sustainability part as well, because lots of aircraft are flying without passengers on board.

Irakli Litanishvili: The ferry flies directly to the people who are willing to jump in the airplane and fly with this ferry airplane and that money goes and we contribute to the program, you know, sustainability program, et cetera. This is a big combination. You know, you can continue to do business. You can sell the aircraft, you can operate the private jet, or you can do the brokerage.

Irakli Litanishvili: But in the end, we need to do something which is completely similar to the old way of doing business.

Sean Weisbrot: So we'll get into that stuff a little bit more, in depth in a bit. I guess I have a small question, and then I want to go back a little bit further. Let's say I am in Barcelona and I do wanna fly to Paris for an opera, which I would normally never consider doing, but if I did, how much would it cost to just find what you call a ferry flight to do? So one, round trip. Between three to seven euros. I would say that's probably outta the realm for most people. I've been on business class flights over oceans. So for example, one time I flew from Vietnam through Tokyo, back to Miami. It was about $3,500 for business class all the way on Japan Air and a fantastic experience. Loved it, but it was three flights over 30 hours. So it's, it's different from flying from Barcelona to Paris, which is probably an hour and a half, something like this. Yeah. For that bottom line of the price. But I can understand some people are in a class above where. You know, for them three to $7,000 for that flight doesn't matter.

Irakli Litanishvili: But at the same time, you know, according to the wealth fix, in 2020 fifth, I think it's gonna be 8.6 million people in Europe who earn more than $5 million per year. That means. I'm trying to go from the top 100 people or 500 people to this level of the people who earn more than $5 million. And in Europe as a wealthy state, it's gonna be 8.6. Right now it's 5.6.

Sean Weisbrot: So do you see the price point going down or do you see just more people being willing to spend that money start to earn more.

Irakli Litanishvili: And the second one is that the price for what you're buying for this service might rise a little bit due to the fuel price, et cetera. But in the end, we're getting there where, for example, you are right, costs are plus, minus stable, but we start to earn more.

Irakli Litanishvili: You know, we have lots of people coming now who earn on it, you know, some other industries. Because it, it shows there are lots of people around who are not maybe used to fly with a private jet, but during the COVID, as you mentioned, our group got 64% more clients, the new clients from business class and from the first class who start to move down to the private jet service because during the COVID you had a problem with the, airlines.

Irakli Litanishvili: Also, some people decided not to be on a crowded place, and that's why this particular COVID period showed us there are lots of wealthy and really maybe middle class people who may afford this to spend,

Sean Weisbrot: I don't know if I can call them middle class.

Irakli Litanishvili: You know, I agree with you. It's, it's not maybe right to call, but people who earn I think more than 5 million, they're not middle class.

Sean Weisbrot: Maybe they're middle class for people who earn between one and a hundred million dollars a year.

Irakli Litanishvili: I was also the guy who used to work in the London office. My salary was. 30,000 pounds per year and it was 60,000 and 100,000. Believe me, if I would like to do the present for my wife, even if I'm earning 100,000 pounds per year, believe me, to spend 10,000 for the round trip between London to Paris, this is where you sell not only the service, but also the emotions because you can go and buy the Rolexes.

Irakli Litanishvili: Thousand, is it right? Yes. But it depends, what type of client we have. We have someone who would like to do some special presents to the wife or the friend. You know, it doesn't matter, but you can buy the Rolex, you can buy, let's say, some other watches or some, but if you do, you experience another thing, you know, once a year you can afford to pay 10,000. If you earn 100,000,

Sean Weisbrot: The largest experiential purchase I've made was the zero gravity flight zero G. Have you heard of them? Have you done it?

Irakli Litanishvili: No. But I've heard you never forget this.

Sean Weisbrot: Absolutely. Very fun. So this was a few years ago. My brother really wanted to go and it was like $5,500 per ticket and I said, Hey, it's gonna be my birthday. Let's go do it. I'll pay for your ticket. So it was like $11,000. I think my credit card company probably freaked out.

Irakli Litanishvili: Yes, but this is what you remember. You know, this is what you want, you want this experience.

Sean Weisbrot: We drove to Orlando, we stayed there for the weekend. We went on the experience, and it was way better than either of us could have imagined. So it was great. Now, if you could put zero gravity on a private jet, now I would pay 7,000 to 10,000 for that experience. I totally understand. I have two friends that run a SaaS business and they help hotels with their check-ins and this kind of internal management.

Sean Weisbrot: And what they discovered was. They could help the businesses figure out ways to increase sales through things like chocolate and roses or candles or things like that that they could do or special packages in the areas nearby and put it into the websites to help them upsell. And that also helps their company make money too. I totally understand how having the flowers for the wife and chocolate for the kids and, you know, caviar on the plane would make some more, many people. Feel really good about their purchase because of how it makes the people there feel. I think there is a very strong component to that emotional aspect, and I think it's a really great idea.

Irakli Litanishvili: But I'll tell you for example, for me personally, you know, I prefer not to have any such things like caviar on board or whatever. I'm flying. I can always go to Starbucks, take my. Coffee, you know, with my wife, you know, we did lots of flights with Honda, from Europe, down to Kazakhstan as well, because she's originally from Kazakhstan.

Irakli Litanishvili: You know, when we go to the pta, you take your sandwich, you take your coffee, some cross ons, you know, and it was fun because it, it, it's not a big airplane, it's just, four CD airplane. You can have, of course, five and six, but it's four. a four seat airplane with a toilet and we just watch movies during the flight, have sandwiches.

Irakli Litanishvili: This is what I think private jets should be. It's just not a luxury. It should be the transportation service. It's my personal view. You know, you can have a bigger airplane of course, which can do Miami, Tokyo, but this is a little bit. Different things. Yeah, the price is 60 million, but this airplane costs 5 million and you spend annually when you own it.

Irakli Litanishvili: Up to between 300 to $500,000. That's all about you spending all your life working hard, you know you are retired or not retired, you are 40 years old. You have a chance, you know, to have such toy, but it's not the toy, it's the same like a car or your Harley Davidson, because this is what I see in us and I, I, I really amazed, you know, the people who used to work all their life, they can afford.

Irakli Litanishvili: To have this Honda jet or any other small jet and travel with the wife, with the kids, you know, from one state to another. This is another experience I think, which comes more and more. Before it was just that when you go with the bike, you know, from Las Vegas to some other places. Now, later it becomes with the cars, with the vans, you know, now it becomes to the airplanes where you jump into, if you have even the license, you can fly yourself.

Irakli Litanishvili: Aviation comes to all of life more and more. That, that's what I see.

Sean Weisbrot: I do wanna get into some future aspects of aviation, but before that I want to talk a little bit more about how your group functions. I think people are probably curious because you have, you said 15 companies, I believe? Yes. So how do you as the founder of the group, I guess the chairman of the group, manage the group without wanting to kill yourself from all of the, the pressure from all the companies?

Irakli Litanishvili: Okay. When I started my business, with my friends, there were seven people. When I came up with the idea that we need to do business, you know what? What we understand, you know, we set up the company, a brokerage company. I give 30% of the shares to the lady who runs it to another company with the same fuel . I gave 30% to another guy.

Irakli Litanishvili: In the end, we have all these now. Companies and inside of these companies, we have the person who leads this. Of course we have a board of directors. You know, they share ideas. In each company, there are three people who take the decision enough to take the two if they do not agree about how to develop or move forward.

Irakli Litanishvili: my voice comes to the table. In the end, the motivation of this team. It's not only my company, it's also their company. Each person runs a particular division, you know, aviation, fuel it. Inside we have some different companies and step by step, first we created a brokerage company, then an asset management company. After they decided that we should have our own OC. Yeah. Later on I decided that, you know, to purchase the fuel or service with a handle, et cetera, I might save some money for my clients. And, I decided to create my own company. And step by step, we add this whole 15 companies all over the world. Under one umbrella, but with the different brand names, because later on we start to give this service and provide this service not only for our own group, but also to the whole aviation industry.

Sean Weisbrot: So how do you split your time on a weekly basis then?

Irakli Litanishvili: It depends on what we have on our table. We have. Monthly, one big meeting, where all the parties and all my partners present where we are and where we stand. If we have some other business, which needs our attention on a weekly basis, we meet as well. But during the day, I just review where we are and where we stand with all these 15 companies just reviewing.

Irakli Litanishvili: And if I see somewhere, some gap or some alarm comes, you know, then I just relocate myself and look with the particular person who's in charge, what might be done. Or what changes we should do. That's how it works in terms of how I put the new business into the group. I'm giving three years to each project.

Irakli Litanishvili: If after my investment within three years, the company not goes to the operational zero. I just closed the company because I'm not giving myself time. You know, let's give one year, two years, you know, we have three year plan. That means after three years, we're not talking about that. We, we should return the invest, but after three years, we should not spend any penny to this business until today.

Irakli Litanishvili: I had one company which I closed. It was just the catering company was quite a difficult business, in terms of, because catering and delivery on the. Private jet, it's always a big challenge. You know, someone wants to have some temperature french fries, you know, this becomes really crazy. And we said, look, I mean, we're not in this position because I also set up the delivery service from this city or downtown to the airport to put it on board, you know, et cetera, et And this company Catering Plus Transportation, it didn't work properly.

Irakli Litanishvili: And I just. actually I am not even close. I, I, I, I gave it as a present to the partner who decided to stay. and after one year, it was just the present, nothing, you know, after one year, he definitely closed the catering and lived just on the transportation. Like, you know, you do the transfer between the airport and the city, but it's, it's, it's his decision.

Sean Weisbrot: I think it's a good goal for three years. I think a lot of people give themselves less time with the company I'm doing now. I paid for it for about three years, and then I said, I'm done. I like it, I want it to keep going, but I'm done paying for it. And then I started to raise funds. So that was, about a year ago now, a few months ago, I started being able to take a salary. And so I'm happy. I mean, I don't, I don't need the salary, but it feels good.

Irakli Litanishvili: This is an important thing. It's the same like, you know, you have lots of these games which come right now on app stores when you start to buy some coins to have a chance to purchase some. Some, a better unit or upgrade something. You know, it's the same with the business. If you decide to spend a particular amount, let's spend this money and then give the chance, you know, at least to see that you start to get something back. Or even not, but not pay more. You should. Stop, you know, like a trader. Okay, cut it, leave it, and think about some other ideas or sell to someone who can develop it or just put something into it, or even don't sell. If you have someone who wants to jump in with you and do something, sometimes you know, my team, they know more than I, I'm always listening to them. You know, be, because it's important. You might have your own ideas, your vision, whatever. It's good you gave it to the group. But when someone comes and says, look. Let's consider some other options. You should not tell them, no, no, I know how to run my business. You always take the feedback because they might see it from a different angle. I think I might listen to my team and my partners. That's also one of the ways for anyone who wants to set up the business and run the business. They should listen to the team with whom they're working.

Sean Weisbrot: Of course. Absolutely. I totally agree. I'm curious, when you're thinking about starting a new company, I assume you're taking either money that's sitting in the group level or you're taking some of the profit from each of the companies individually to fund a pool that goes into this. I don't know how you structure it, so I'm curious to know how you structure it. Funds to then go into one of those ventures and either, how much do you budget for it? Is it the same for each new venture, or does it depend on what the venture needs? How does that look?

Irakli Litanishvili: Whenever I start a new project, I put the money in. Earned by some of my companies in the group, or I'm putting my own money after the company starts to move forward. Some of my partners also joined. You know, sometimes we do it straight away or sometimes I'm taking my own money and risk. For example, with it, I decided to start the project with my partners.

Irakli Litanishvili: I told them guys. I'm gonna fund this. All my group, I mean the, the partners in my group, they, they said, why should we go there? You know, we don't understand it. We don't have enough experience. It's not our business. I said, look, we know aviation, the people who I'm, I'm bringing on board their IT guys.

Irakli Litanishvili: Plus there are people with banking experience that means. If we have these three professional teams who put their knowledge into the project, we should be successful in the end. I start my oldest investment starting from 2019 and we were able in 2021 to have the product itself, in all AppSource and Google stores. And, within the testing regime via our app, we've got 4.5 million bucks in revenue. That gave us the chance straight away to attract the investors who decided now to, jump into the seed round and, and put their own money into the project. That's why now it's the first time in my history. When I allowed some external funds to enter the group before it never happened. That's why for me, it's also a new experience. but, but we are really excited because we are learning a lot, you know, with the people who are joining our team and. Let's say old school brokers and the team members from Malta, from the uk, they look at us and say, oh, yes, we see it. It makes sense. Let's step by step integrate yourself. That's why what we did actually, we started to shift. All our requests and all our clients to our IT platform. That means we're also educating not only our own stuff, but the clients and it shows that we are all looking to the new digital future.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah, I think it's important. I know that probably the people who are using your platform are probably a little bit older. And so for them, it is something they need to be educated about. They're probably used to getting on the phone at any given time of the day or night for one of your customer service people and saying, Hey, I need a flight, you know, in the next 12 hours going to this place. And then your person manually does it, right?

Irakli Litanishvili: Yes. But now it's manual, we can do it as well, but now we can also, with this tool, he can do it by himself just to guide him. And that's it. But we'll also keep the client who doesn't want really to use this platform,

Sean Weisbrot: But eventually you'll have to force them.

Irakli Litanishvili: Yeah, you, I'll force them. But it should be some time. You know, we should get used to it when Uber appears on the market or in the booking comp. If we go through the history of the creation of this company, it was a huge challenge to get taxi drivers to start to use this platform. The same as here we are getting right now, the inventory we. Each week we get between one to two operators joining this platform in Europe, even in the Middle East, getting some calls from us. We should probably be within two and a half, three years. Industry clients, they're ready for such a product. You know,

Sean Weisbrot: It's not. An inflection point. It's not a terribly unique thing, it's just automating something that people are used to in a way that's faster for them to handle.

Irakli Litanishvili: Okay. It's faster. I agree. But unique might be another thing. Today, when you book your flight, you always pay a high amount for your trip, but our platform helps to take you out of this route. Empty ferry flights, which will help you to save up to 70% of your flight. Let me explain to you, I mean, you are in Miami right now and you decided to fly to New York.

Irakli Litanishvili: Let's imagine you don't have airplanes around, but you have some airplanes just passing through Miami. Empty and it goes somewhere, next to New York. When you have a system which straight away says it operates and gets the information that there is decline in Miami, may you pick him up. You still pay this cost as an operator to fly down to New York and they will add you on board.

Irakli Litanishvili: You know you will pay a lending fee of course. Small amount of money and save some money for the operator. And part of this money can be used for the environmental programs because this aircraft is not gonna leave their CO2 footprint, you know, whatever. But this money, which you decided to spend and jump on the airplane. Can be used for environmental programs.

Irakli Litanishvili: I mean, it's not unique, but we start to change the attitudes towards having this service for the individuals. You know,

Sean Weisbrot: Let's get more into the future of this industry since I know it's something you're thinking about. Do you see people with private jets doing something like renting out the jets when they're not gonna be using them in the future? Kind of like what, what I've heard. The future of cars looks like no one will own a car. The cars will be owned by Uber or by Waymo or whoever it is, and you'll just use them to get around. Or you may own your car, but your car will self-drive. So if you don't need it, it'll go and pick somebody else up and earn you money as you, as you're working your day or whatever. Do you see? Planes doing something like that or no?

Irakli Litanishvili: Yes, and I believe it will happen. This will happen, definitely. Generation I mentioned there are lots of people who start to earn more than five. They also would not be. This money to purchase the airplane in this case, they're better to share it even if more comes within the next five to 10 years.

Sean Weisbrot: What do you think it'll take for that to become something people really wanna do?

Irakli Litanishvili: It's also about, I think too many airplanes, if we produce today, and we have lots of inventory around, yeah, someone needs to or renew it or decide what to do with the old fleet, that means the old fleet should go to some program.

Irakli Litanishvili: I think the way, if you would like to purchase your aircraft for yourself, the new one, whatcha gonna do with alt, you gonna sell it. And buy the new one. Buy. I think more and more we see that, as you mentioned, we're not buying any more cars. We started to use Uber. Then later on, when you have a self-driving car, you don't even need to have parking in your, in your garage, any car, which you're not using yet.

Irakli Litanishvili: That means you start to put it to the program, which someone can use for themself. You know, maybe you're not gonna even fly a lot, but you still would like to have this feeling that you can have it. I don't know. I mean, my. Personal opinion is that that's gonna happen first in the US and it's gonna be then coming to Europe because the US is still, you know, more mature with aviation and there are lots of airplanes that can be easily integrated into this.

Irakli Litanishvili: Program in Europe, it's gonna be difficult to do, but in the US market, I think it's definitely gonna be very soon because we see lots of companies who are merging right now, they're growing their fleet, and then in the end they're gonna combine it to the club membership. System, which will allow you to do this. Even we have this, fractional ownership, for example. Yeah. But this fractional ownership will move soon to the club program, or the cart program, whatever we call it. There was the chance to set up about, I think, 10 years ago, but the itself, the. People were not ready to share something today. We are ready to share our car, let's say our apartment, and I think airplane as well.

Sean Weisbrot: So the next thing I'm interested in talking about is the electrification of airplanes. I know that's something else you're thinking about. So what do you think about where the electrification of airplanes is right now? What the next steps look like and, and what will be required for it to become, what changes? How is the airline industry right now? 'cause everything is still with jet fuel.

Irakli Litanishvili: Look, I mean, it's all about the battery. As soon as we have the battery. Which allows us to fly. And also this battery will be not for only one and a half hour or something, but longer distance. Then it will be realistic and it will happen.

Irakli Litanishvili: Of course. Then we need to think about how we're gonna regulate this, how the. Government looks into this topic because there are too many steps which need to be done before, but, electric, airplanes or helicopters, it's not the future. I think it's our reality today. We have lots of airplanes and helicopters which already have this technology and it's all about how we're gonna upgrade and develop it.

Irakli Litanishvili: It's not the future, it's it's our today.

Sean Weisbrot: What's the price difference between an electric and a non-electric, let's say helicopter right now?

Irakli Litanishvili: You mean operational expenses or for how much you're gonna purchase the assets itself?

Sean Weisbrot: Both.

Irakli Litanishvili: Whatever new comes, I think the good example is Tesla.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah.

Irakli Litanishvili: How much does a Tesla cost? 100,000 bucks. It's the same as buying a regular BMW or Mercedes, sometimes even more. It is all about technology plus marketing. Yeah. That means I don't think so. That, we are gonna save something on, on the price of the asset where we can be able to save. Maybe it's on the operational side, even if we're talking about the expenses.

Irakli Litanishvili: Yeah. Money-wise. Okay. It's gonna be minus. 20, 30%. But on the other hand, we're gonna have some other things like which we're gonna need to invest in. So the infrastructure and, and all other things in the end. Plus minus for, for the users. I don't think so. We can save a lot, but we will help our environment not to have CO2 and all this rubbish, you know, which we have as an example when using these things.

Sean Weisbrot: There was one thing about that, which I've. Gotten before about electrification and all that, while the electrification of things is important, the problem still lies in the manufacturing to make that thing, because the raw materials to put together the assembly line and the manufacturing of the facility and all of that, still requires machines fueled by fuel. To mine those raw materials and to put them together. So I feel like it's kind of a pipe dream. We can say, oh, we've got this, this thing, it's electric. It does a good job, but where are you plugging it into a unit that gives you energy powered by fuel? Unfortunately, yes, because most electrical grids are powered by fossil fuels, unfortunately.

Irakli Litanishvili: But this is also a good point and it's right.

Sean Weisbrot: I guess I don't really have a question or a point there. I just, it boggles my mind because everyone says. Yeah, we're, we're working on, there's solar power, there's wind power, there's geothermal, there's all of this. There's electrical power, but all of those things, the hydroelectric dam, every part of it comes from a manufacturing line that was powered by fossil fuels. Right. The solar cells, the photovoltaic cells, they all come from fossil fuels, like there's no way around it.

Irakli Litanishvili: Yes, you know, if we are talking here, not about what contribution can be done to keep the earth and the same green and fresh and not to destroy what we have right now, you know, because whatever we put you mentioned, like, in the new technology, it'll. Still puts us in a position, you know, to go back and take from mother Earth all that we need.

Sean Weisbrot: The best way that I can think of it is we burn fossil fuels to build the next generation of technology that builds the next generation of. Power that is renewable and doesn't create carbon emissions. However, from there, even if everything is electrified, solar powered, wind powered, geothermal powered, nuclear powered, even if we are completely non reliant on fossil fuels, we will still have machines that are mining from the earth. To create more of those machines with the clean energy standards. So as long as we continue to have capitalism with this mindset for progress and productivity, we're gonna continue to destroy the planet. Even if we change everything about how everything works, it's really kind of messed up unless we get to a point where we can mine the moon or we can mine Mars, or we can mine asteroids where we're not mining from the earth and then we don't hurt the planet anymore. We're just hurting other planets.

Irakli Litanishvili: This is a really terrible thing. You know, it's gonna, you know, we destroyed it here and we, we go now with the, some other planets, you know, we do the same, you know,

Sean Weisbrot: But at least we won't be using fossil fuels to destroy those planets.

Irakli Litanishvili: You never know.

Sean Weisbrot: Well if those other, if those other places don't have fossils, they don't have oil, you know, and it will be too expensive to take oil off world. We, we, we'll find something else. Destruction finds a way. Right.

Irakli Litanishvili: Exactly.

Sean Weisbrot: So is there anything we haven't talked about that you want to kind of help to, to say, to conclude and wrap up this episode?

Irakli Litanishvili: I think we still need to be positive about. Able to at least, to implement the existing reality. And, I hope even you mentioned, you know, what comes next technology wise should not be so harmful for the new generation.