How I Built an 8-Figure Business with 100% Affiliate Marketing

Sean Weisbrot: All right. Welcome back to another episode of the We Live To Build podcast. I'm here today with Cody Bramlett. We already did a private interview. If you haven't seen that yet, then definitely go. Check that out. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go to the wheel live to build.com website and you can find out more information there.

Sean Weisbrot: So, Cody, for the people who don't know who you are yet, why don't you tell them a little bit about what it is you do so that we can set up the topic for today, which is affiliate marketing?

Cody Bramlett: Yeah, definitely. I'm really excited to talk about affiliate marketing today because this is an easy way for people to make money without having to invest a lot and without having to.

Cody Bramlett: To know a lot. It's really about relationships, which I think is the most powerful thing. So I started out, selling food at restaurants, for the US Food Service. I was a great sales rep there. I kind of owned my, owned my chops for figuring how to do the, the door to door sales concept. I hated the job though 'because I hadhorrible bosses.

Cody Bramlett: So I started a gym, a kettlebell gym in San Diego. Ran that thing for seven years, realized that making $2,000 a month, working 40 hours a week and being emotionally and fried and exhausted was not what I wanted to do. And I decided to develop a supplement brand. So I created a company called Science Natural Supplements, and we sold turmeric.

Cody Bramlett: We were the first major company online to really push it. And the first year of operation, we did two and a half, and then. Six and a half, and then I think four and then five, and then four. All selling turmeric with a handful of offers on the back end. We acquire our traffic through affiliate marketing, which is getting people with.

Cody Bramlett: Blogs, email lists, other sources of traffic or people that just know, hardly know how to get traffic to promote you, and you pay them a commission for every single sale that happens. and we'll go into depth about that. there's a whole structure and way of building a certain type of sales page and certain type of offer or video that allows these things to convert.

Cody Bramlett: And you have a, we, you know, we. Like to see things converting between one to 3% conversion rate. And basically it's just when you get an offer that works and a network of people that know, like, and trust you, it's just like printing money. And in our bad months, we'll do a half a million. In our good months, we'll do 2 million.

Cody Bramlett: Every month is profitable. And the coolest part is we've actually created our business to be really more about a customer acquisition. We monetize on the back end. So the second, third, fourth sale that people make is where we make our true profits and the majority of our profits. So today I'm an open book to explain the whole darn thing.

Cody Bramlett: I coach people how to do this as well. Just, get it, get it out in the open because I love to make sure people do it the right way. I've made a million dollars of mistakes and I'm open about those two. So I think on our last call, we went into a few of them and they were, they were painful. but yeah, so today it's all about.

Cody Bramlett: Teaching you guys what you wanna build, how you wanna get traffic to it, and how to make money once you have it working.

Sean Weisbrot: All right, great. Thank you for the intro. I appreciate it. So I just want to clarify something real fast. You said between half 1,000,002 million a month from affiliates?

Cody Bramlett: Yeah. In terms of revenue, not profit, but yes.

Cody Bramlett: so slow, slow month, half million, big month, 2 million. I mean, I have one climb right now that's doing I think 30 this month. So it can, the sky's the limit. He is truly a unique, one of a kind, kind of company. But to be able to do it, you know. To 300,000 a month in revenue is really achievable from pretty much anybody.

Cody Bramlett: It's just a matter of having focus and staying on track and, and within six months to a year, you can have that without having massive skills. You don't need to be an incredible copywriter, incredible ad buyer, and incredible salesperson. You have to know what to do, when to do it, and as long as you're a kind nice person who wants to be people's friends.

Cody Bramlett: It's possible.

Sean Weisbrot: What percent would you say your affiliate marketing generates in terms of total revenue?

Cody Bramlett: The idea is you're trying to acquire a customer by paying as much as possible, and then once you have them, you make money on the backend by promoting offers that are only to customers you already have by Repromote, the same offer, or by sharing other third party offers that convert well and you have to kind of do all three of those things to truly be successful In terms of the company's overall revenue, this year I think we're on track to do about 8 million in sales.

Cody Bramlett: So that's front end sales, and then about 2 million on the email list. Now the email list is about 80, 90% profit. Then on the actual product sales, it's about 15, 10% profit. So the idea of where revenue comes and where profit comes is a big kind of lopsided 80-20 kind of thing. but they are needed without having the customer acquisition.

Cody Bramlett: You can't develop an email list that has life and longevity 'cause no one's gonna stand your email list forever. and without having a strong backend and email focused mindset, you can't make any money 'cause you're not making enough money for the front end to be a successful company. For the amount of staff and time and people and energy you need to grow the business correctly.

Sean Weisbrot: Okay, so I, I didn't quite hear an actual percentage though, of what the affiliates were for the total revenue.

Cody Bramlett: Oh. A hundred percent.

Sean Weisbrot: So you, only you a hundred percent of your revenue comes from affiliates.

Cody Bramlett: Yes. Most companies will, they, they can figure out how to do ads on their own. Maybe you are a person who's had experience with Facebook or YouTube in that aspect.

Cody Bramlett: I don't, I never did. I started this, six, seven years ago now, and back then it was a lot more of a wild west on, um. Facebook and you had to be a really aggressive marketer and you couldn't compete with these people. It was hard to win in any aspect, and so I just avoided that and kept working with affiliates.

Cody Bramlett: Now there are affiliates who are Facebook people. I had this wonderful affiliate for a year, and drove probably $4 million to one of my offers. He found a target audience, he found an ad set that worked, and then I just paid him like a hundred bucks per conversion. I made about five bucks in profit and he just printed me customers all day long.

Cody Bramlett: So there's certain affiliates out there that are great in these aspects. They're harder to find because they tend to usually gravitate towards large companies or really successful offers, and those are usually the ones who are the top three to five offers. You'll see on platforms like ClickBank, Digi store and buy goods, which are the large marketplaces for people.

Cody Bramlett: Who are looking for affiliate offers to promote. but yeah, it's always been an affiliate. It's always been about that. This year's goal is building an internal sales team that can do Facebook and YouTube and things along those lines. but that's a year and a half long game plan. It's not a thing I expect to have printing money instantaneously.

Cody Bramlett: 'cause that would be crazy to have that wish.

Sean Weisbrot: As an entrepreneur, you, you want things to go a lot faster than they actually go. So I'm curious, how do you find people to be affiliates and how do you convince them to work with you?

Cody Bramlett: Perfect. So, the first step is having an offer, and we'll get into that a little later, but assuming you have an offer that converts at one and a quarter to one point a half percent on, on a typical list, and we'll just go with the most general offer there is.

Cody Bramlett: Weight loss, right on online. How do I make money online and how do I lose weight? Those are the two biggest, money making ways to, to two biggest ways to make money online. So obviously you have a coaching program on how to make money by selling how to lose weight, boom, boom. with the idea of losing weight, you have a great offer, one and a quarter, one point half percent conversion rate.

Cody Bramlett: Then you go out and you put that offer on these platforms. So as you start out as a beginner, you have no street cred. No one knows who you are. And in this space, affiliates of people, list owners like myself, who promote other offers, get burned occasionally. I have a gentleman in my coaching group who was burned by a gigantic.

Cody Bramlett: 30, 40, $50 million a year company because they just stopped their affiliate program and forgot to pay him for a year. And, and, and the gentleman in my group, he's, he's an OG person. He's been in this space forever. And so it's, you get burned by the people you least expect sometimes.

Cody Bramlett: And so a lot of list owners and traffic owners are very weary about just promoting someone who has their own platform.

Cody Bramlett: So ideally, you take your product once it's tested and good, and you put the offer in the funnel. On ClickBank buy goods did you store or a combination of one or two or three of them? Each platform has their affiliates that prefer to be on that platform. But I would say, you know, 70, 80% are on ClickBank, probably 20% or so buy goods.

Cody Bramlett: 10% are on Digi stores. So you have your offer, let's say on ClickBank 'cause it's the biggest platform out there. They have a whole marketplace that has a thing called gravity.

Cody Bramlett: So as you, as you increase sales, you raise up, you get ranked, there's a scorecard on there. And if you have a super mega off, awesome unicorn offer, which I think there's two or three a year.

Cody Bramlett: You automatically shoot to number one, but there's a bunch of people playing games there too, to rank the top 20, top 30. So in order to actually. Get free affiliates from ClickBank or buy goods, you have to have a crazy good offer. So you gotta scrap that idea because the chances of your offer being a unicorn are very limited.

Cody Bramlett: and the next step is then, which you said, how do you get the affiliates?

Cody Bramlett: So you reach out to ClickBank, your account manager, reach out to buy goods, did you store? They have a, a, a plethora of affiliates they can introduce you to or get your offer in front of. After that, the next step is how do you meet these people and how do you meet more?

Cody Bramlett: So I always tell my wife when I go out to conferences and do stuff, I'm just out there shaking hands and kissing babies because all you're doing is acting like a politician and making friends.

Cody Bramlett: So you go to events, there's an event in San Diego in September called Traffic and Conversion. That is the event to go to.

Cody Bramlett: There's an event in January called Affiliate Summit West in Las Vegas. That's the one I go to. There's one that just happened in New York called Affiliate Summit East. There's Affiliate Summit World. You go to these events, you book coffee dates with every single person you know and lunch dates, and you make friends with them.

Cody Bramlett: You just, you be their friend, you be their advocate. If your offer is not good for them, you find a way to help them by introducing them to someone else by, you know, writing a blog post because it helps their offer by referring them to someone they wanna hire because you know someone that could be a good fit for them.

Cody Bramlett: Whatever it may be, you be their advocate and their friend. Because as you start to grow, grow in this industry, if everyone knows, likes and trusts you. When your offer does work, they're gonna drive a ton of traffic. And if your offers, okay, they're gonna throw you a bone and send you an offer occasionally, as opposed to never at all.

Cody Bramlett: So you go to conferences, you make friends. The next step is of course saying, Hey, my offer was good. Do you know anybody you could refer me to? Right? Could you introduce me to someone else? If you make friends with somebody, like I make friends with Sean. If I need something, I'm gonna help and say, Hey Sean, you got anybody that could be good in here?

Cody Bramlett: And he's gonna be like, Hmm. Maybe. And then if it comes along a month from now or two weeks from now, he's gonna be like, oh, that person should be a great fit for what Cody was looking for. So that idea of being able to, ask someone for help, ask someone who they can refer you to is, is key and important.

Cody Bramlett: And then finally, being a part of group I. I have the Supplement Millionaire Mastermind. We teach people how to build offers, right? How to run their offers, how to structure their offers. You join our group, you instantly meet 40 people who can drive you to your offer and be friends with you. There's other groups, there's a group called Traffic Tribe.

Cody Bramlett: I. Amber Spears runs it. She's a great teacher of how to be an affiliate manager and a great connector. There's like 300 people in her group. It's a more virtual Facebook one, but that's huge. The more groups you get involved with free Facebook groups, groups that cost a couple hundred bucks a month, master plans that cost 10 grand a year, the more you're involved in them, the more people you meet, the more people you get introduced to.

Cody Bramlett: So it's just about spreading out your social network of people in space. Asking who could he get introduced to and going from there. And of course, all this stems back from the fact that you have to have an offer that functionally works and is something that's worth talking about.

Cody Bramlett: Because if your offer converts at a half a percent, there's no reason why anybody should ever want to promote you.

Cody Bramlett: So you, you're wasting a lot of time because you need to be focusing on perfecting that offer

Sean Weisbrot: Once you convince them to give you a chance. Is there like a, a, a sales process or an onboarding process? Like how does, what's that next step look

Cody Bramlett: like? Definitely. It's all about making it as simple as possible.

Cody Bramlett: So, a good example, Savannah, who runs our sales team right now, she probably gets a hundred emails a day. Not from inside the company, from people reaching out, being like, will you promote me? Hi, can I talk to you? Hi, can I waste your time? Whatever it may be. You know, before I had passed everything off to her, I was just getting hit up on Skype by just networks and people who drive traffic, just trying to get my attention because they're hoping that I can either drive traffic to their offers or they can drive traffic to mine.

Cody Bramlett: And a lot of times it's never a good fit. So these people are. Slammed. If you can get someone to agree to talk to you, that's the first step, right? You can have a conversation with 'em in person, Skype conversation, whatever it is. The next step is to get them to remember you, right? So one of the things we do, we give people a mini gift, a Starbucks gift card, right?

Cody Bramlett: Or I find out that they love wine. Get 'em a bottle from a wine.com kind of thing. Do something to share love. You know, it's the idea of Bill Glazer and Dan Kennedy talking about how to get it in, in front of somebody. You don't send 'em a sales envelope or. Hey, check this thing out. One of the ideas they had before was sending an umbrella with all the letters stuffed in the umbrella that explain what it is.

Cody Bramlett: So if an owner receives an umbrella, they're like, what? And they open it up and they're very curious. So you want someone to remember you, you wanna be likable, and you wanna make sure that that connection is made.

Cody Bramlett: Then they agree to test your offer. Yeah, no problem. I'll test your offer. You wanna be, of course, gentle because you're new and not over demanding and annoying because you're new and then they're gonna ignore you.

Cody Bramlett: you wanna make sure you're talking to the right person. So you, if you're contacting my sales manager, I. The first thing is, hey, do you have an affiliate manager or someone on your team I should be working with so that way you don't have to spend all this time with me. And they, and if they do, if they have some underlings that can run, run the stuff for them, that saves them time.

Cody Bramlett: And that staff, those staff are usually a lot more, less bombarded by emails. So you have your offer, they agree to do it, they already know I can trust you. The key is then sending them everything in a clean, consistent place. So in ClickBank and buy goods, everyone has a id. Their ID goes into the link in a way to track it, and it tracks commissions and ClickBank and buys goods and pays the affiliates automatically because, if your offer is on there, then ClickBank's paying you the remainder of the money.

Cody Bramlett: It's a really cool system that saves you a ton of time and energy every single month. So you just basically set up their link for them, so it's the correct link with the correct tracking on it. You'd give them the appropriate email, creatives, swipes, any, any imagery, any blog posts, anything they requested needed, but only what they needed.

Cody Bramlett: You wouldn't give them, Hey, here's 20 email swipes, mail one, right? No. You wanna give them the top two that work. This one does great, and this one also does great, but this one is better. Make it simple so that way they can paste the email in. Put in the hyperlink, hit send. The next step, of course, is follow up to give them stats back.

Cody Bramlett: One of the things that I pride my team with is they provide stats to people constantly, especially if they're new and they're testing the offer. You know, here's how they did in our metrics, here's the current versions, here's the clicks, here's the earnings per click, here's how much you made. you know, and then the, the goal is, the goal is then to find out did that drop that promotion equal what they expected?

Cody Bramlett: So if someone makes a thousand dollars a day on average for emailing an offer, and they only made $800 when they promoted you, your goal is to find out what that number was. So it's a thousand to see if you could increase their commission or if you can do anything to make it up so that way they can make that average because people are all about the dollars.

Cody Bramlett: Sometimes they'll throw you a bone, but it's just like they have to meet their, their, their metrics. Not everybody has the same metric. Like our company tends to look at ECPM, which is earnings per a thousand cents. So for every a thousand emails we send, we should make X amount of dollars. And that's the metric we tend to look at.

Cody Bramlett: 'cause it does allow for list growth to look at and changes, to be able to use those variables to be able to understand how well the offer's doing. Now and later versus different lists. But some people have earnings per click. They care about, some people care about money, a dollar amount per drop. It just all depends on the actual company.

Cody Bramlett: So understanding what those things are, reporting back to them, understanding if you can meet that mark and how you can get to that mark. and then just overly impressing them. We've had instances before where we were so far off with a good affiliate that we wrote 'em a blank check. Not a blank check, but like, Hey, they, they should have made $3,000 more.

Cody Bramlett: Here's four. I'm sorry it didn't go your way. I'm gonna work on it again and I'll let you know when it's live so I can have you test the offer again to make it more successful. And when I do those types of things, people are impressed. They remember and they're like, yeah, I'll test it again. 'cause they know there's no risk.

Cody Bramlett: 'cause I'm gonna throw them a bone if there's a problem.

Sean Weisbrot: I'm curious, you were talking about different ways to track the success of a specific promotion. you, you mentioned one was, earnings per thousand, emails. Can you go into how you actually figure out those numbers?

Cody Bramlett: I'm not the best at explaining the exact way to match it down without having a spreadsheet in front of me, but I can kind of walk through all the different aspects.

Cody Bramlett: So we'll just take my company, for example, when we're testing an offer. So I have a brand new collagen offer I want to test, so we'll send an email to it. And let's say we send 10,000 emails. We know how many we sent, we know how many clicks or how many people opened that email. We know how many people click that email, so we wanna make sure that Theo opens right now, right?

Cody Bramlett: Right. Percentage of opens and we're shooting for 30% because since the Apple thing happened, you gotta be high because if you're at like 20%, that probably means in reality you had like 10% of people opening, which means your emails are tanking and no one wants to inbox your emails like Yahoo and Google are just putting you in spam.

Cody Bramlett: So you're shooting for like a 30% open rate. with the, with the open rate being correct, that means you had a good subject line. As well as a healthy list. The next step is to understand the click through rate, and you can look at click through for the amount of people that opened versus how, or the amount of people that were sent to.

Cody Bramlett: Those are two different metrics you can look at, and the click through rate is an indicator of did the email do its job and get someone to go to the sales page. So we're looking at that metric. Then we're looking at the amount of clicks that landed on the sales page and the amount of people that purchased.

Cody Bramlett: From those clicks, the conversion rate there matters. That's the one we want to have one and a quarter plus on it. One and a quarter at a minimum to be a successful offer. and then of course, if you had a low click through rate and a low open, then the conversions will be different. Like, good. A good example I have, a weight loss offer.

Cody Bramlett: You get more clicks to those, Hey, discover the secret to learn how to lose weight and then have another offer that's just get turmeric. Buy one, get three free. So the email is like, do you like turmeric? Do you want free bottles? Click this button. It has less clicks because, and only, you're only gonna click it if you know you want turmeric.

Cody Bramlett: If you don't give a crap or you already bought turmeric, you're not gonna click it. So the conversion rate will be different on that page because the clicks are gonna be more of a proven audience than a curiosity email to a curiosity weight loss offer to a curiosity, remedy to solve a problem. So they're all kind of different.

Cody Bramlett: And then it all kind of then looksat the revenue that's generated. So your commission that's generated. You ideally, like again wanna meet that affiliate's marks. Let's say that an email list is a thousand dollars, whether you sell one where that is, whether you have one conversion and pay a thousand dollars commission or 10 and pay a hundred or 20 and pay 50, it's irrelevant.

Cody Bramlett: As long as that affiliate and traffic source makes the money they expect for that drop. And that can be looked at through the drop. Just how much money was made from promoting your offer. That one time, it can be looked at through earnings per clicks. They look at the number of clicks they sent and how much money they made and divided it out, and they're looking for a particular number for that list.

Cody Bramlett: Could be a dollar on that list, could be $4 depending on the list, whatever it is. But usually a dollar is a healthy, healthy, conversion. And then the ECPM is what we look at because the ECPM ignores the email. So if the email did not convert and get enough clicks to the page, it looks back at how many emails we sent.

Cody Bramlett: So we can have a better idea of how that list works. So if you sent to 10,000 people and you made a thousand dollars, that means there's a hundred dollars CPM, $10, CPM, I can't remember. I'm terrible with math. some, something like that. and so we teach, we, in our coaching program, of course, my affiliate manager teaches all this stuff.

Cody Bramlett: She has examples of what to do. She teaches people how to send an email appropriately so it's clean, clear and concise. That way people don't get confused. and, and the key is just. Being as clear as possible and helpful as possible to the people driving traffic, so that way you can build that working relationship with them and not just be like, oh, cool, they send for me.

Cody Bramlett: And then like a month later being like, why aren't they sending it again? Because, because you haven't developed a relationship, you have to kind of have that constant dialogue to be like, cool, awesome. I'm glad it did well for you. Are you gonna queue it up for next month? What can we do for you? We're doing a contest next month.

Cody Bramlett: You should promote during that time, 'cause you're gonna get an extra, you could win an extra $5,000 or whatever. It's,

Sean Weisbrot: It's really complicated. In terms of all of the nuances of the relationships with keeping them happy and making sure that the metrics are right, you were saying that it's important for you to know that you're at least hitting their expectations for what they will earn. Is that as simple as, Hey, how much do you expect to earn? 100%

Cody Bramlett: Are you guys, does ECPM matter or does ECPM matter to you? Are you looking for earnings per click? Do, how much do you typically make when you send to a drop? Those kinds of things all matter. And of course you wanna tell them what their commission is ahead of time.

Cody Bramlett: Like, Hey, you're $50 per conversion and this offers a 3% conversion rate. Do you wanna be honest about that ahead of time? So you're not trying to squeeze cash out of them, not give them money. You know, if someone says they make $4,000 a drop. They make 4,500, and I look at my offer and I made more than normal.

Cody Bramlett: I'm like, guess what? You actually made five. And going forward, you're gonna make more money every time you send, because the goal is if you can pay for the most, if whoever can pay for the highest traffic wins. And by the way, all these stats and metrics are not exclusive to affiliates. If you're looking at buying ads, it's all the same metrics and conversions.

Cody Bramlett: It's just different lingo. You're worried about the conversion on the ad, you're worried about the conversion on the page. You're worried about the click through rate. You're worried about the cost and the bid and the whole thing comes back to, you know, are you making money every time they convert?

Cody Bramlett: And, um. Are the people happy? In the affiliate world too, you can also buy list drops. So you can come to us and be like, Hey, Cody, can I buy a drop? And I'll be like, sure, I got a list for a thousand dollars. I got a list for $4,000 and you can buy it. And of course, it's the same as buying ads on Facebook or buying ads on, on, on YouTube or Google.

Cody Bramlett: you just understand that you have a budget and you spent that much and you're hoping to make it back and you're trying to figure out what the metrics are. To achieve that.

Sean Weisbrot: So you're saying if I have an e-commerce product, I can buy from you, the ability to promote my product to your list? Is that what you're saying?

Cody Bramlett: Yeah. Yeah. There's plenty of people that do that. I would never recommend it, especially from an e-commerce product, because you need to have an average order value. If you have a one and a half percent converting page, you need to have about $180 average order value. 'cause you're gonna need to pay about a hundred dollars per conversion to be able to.

Cody Bramlett: Meet that metric. So if I had a thousand dollar list, you would need to have a page that will convert 10 people and you need to be making at least a hundred dollars profit per, per customer to be able to pay me. So it, it's, the game truly is about learning to build a funnel that can have an average order value of one 50 to two 50, and then have a high conversion rate of, you know, one point a half to 3%.

Cody Bramlett: And obviously the conversion rate is higher. You can pay less per conversion. I think the conversion rate is lower. You have to pay more because you have to be able to meet that traffic source minimum to make them happy.

Sean Weisbrot: My mind's blown here. I, I've, I've never dealt with affiliates. I mean, I did, when I was doing consulting, I would have people refer to me, you call it affiliate if you want, and they would refer clients to me, and I just knew.

Sean Weisbrot: You know, there's like a 90% chance that this person's gonna close because using the psychology of trust and having the client who trusts the refer, you know, selling my service, they're then transferring their trust over to me. So it's really easy for me to get their trust. So it's very different because it's a manual, you know, it's one-on-one, but the deals were five, six figures.

Sean Weisbrot: So, it's a lot easier 'cause then you go, Hey look, I'm just gonna give you 10% of what they pay me. And like, my goal is to maximize what I can charge. And. You know, whatever that is, it's good for you. So, you know, sometimes people were getting 10,000, 15,000 commissions and they're like, I'm gonna just keep bringing you money because like, you're paying for my college, or you're paying for a house for my mom, or whatever it was.

Sean Weisbrot: but like I didn't have to ever think Sergeant, I never had to think about conversion rates and clicks and ads and I never dealt with any of that stuff. It was very foreign.

Cody Bramlett: It's an entirely separate layer. 'cause you still have to do that, making friends with people and getting to know, like, and trust you.

Cody Bramlett: But then they're not paying you. You're paying them based on how well the offer converts or some kind of reciprocal in that way. 'cause another thing you can do too is like swaps. You know, Hey, you, you promote me, I promote you. As long as it's fair enough for both of you. Cool. Maybe it's not as good as normally, but I got an extra email to promote my offer.

Cody Bramlett: So there's a lot of tit for tat in the industry. That's more frowned upon now because a lot of people who want that usually have a crappy offer but don't convert. So one person gets the short into the stick and that kind of scenario. but it's really about making friends with them. So they want to continue working with you and then proving that your offer does well on their list, so they make the metrics they need, otherwise they can promote the other crappy offer on ClickBank about I.

Cody Bramlett: You know, drink this coffee, lose weight, you know, kind of thing.

Sean Weisbrot: The whole layer one, make friends and give them a great offer. Like, that's, that's natural for me. But all of the, the tiny nuances of the metrics and the math and all of that is like that. That's what's, that's what's unique.

Cody Bramlett: I was fortunate, my brother had gotten into space with a workout program.

Cody Bramlett: before me. And, he was probably doing it for about a year and a half, two years before me. And so he understood it and got to kind of figure out all the stuff. And then when I jumped in, he kind of helped me for six, for six months. And I was just like, what? What is EEPC? What is the, you know, it was all completely foreign and it does take time, and that was one of the reasons why, I was happy to make a coaching program because we teach all this stuff.

Cody Bramlett: We beat it in through videos. We give examples on, on, on all the, all the forms, all the sheets that we use internally for our eight figure company. So you people can use it successfully when they're starting out and know from the beginning. They are versus being confused and lost as you slowly grow up until you finally have the time and energy and understanding to get it.

Cody Bramlett: And there's other groups too, again, like Traffic Tribe that are phenomenal and they teach all these things and which things were not, didn't exist when I first started. So there's, the good part is where you meet people where these things are being taught. So you're gonna come into it novice and new, but people will be like, oh, your new cool, your offers neat, neat.

Cody Bramlett: This is how we do things. Welcome to the group. They're, they're very, as long as you're open, honest, and truthful, people are very accepting and nice. And they don't hate you. If your offer sucks, they're just gonna wait for you to make it better. And this isn't crucial because I, there's two, two ladies in this space that are just amazing.

Cody Bramlett: They're just. Uber was successful and both of them when I first met them were nobodies with offers that didn't work. And now they're probably twice as big as my company and have been successful for years. So they, everyone knows that everyone, not everyone, but there's a huge chance that someone will have a great offer eventually.

Cody Bramlett: So everyone wants to remain friends and stay connected because it just takes that right headline, right video, right product, right story, whatever it is, that hits the mark for that day and time and then suddenly. That's the offer everyone wants to promote and you wanna make sure you're, you're friends with that person, then they don't, they don't hate you because you gave them crap when you first started out.

Sean Weisbrot: Do you use affiliates to drive traffic to your coaching program about teaching affiliates? So that's an interesting thing.

Cody Bramlett: Like I've had a hard time, I. Finding a lot of affiliates that do that. Most affiliates are into promoting to, direct to customers. And because we teach people who are either a hundred percent serious, you know, they're ready to invest 20 grand into starting a business, not through coaching, but to like, build their company or people that already have existing businesses.

Cody Bramlett: they're not. As targetable of an audience. Now a good example is ClickBank to buy goods. We're trying, we're right now in the process of partnering with them so they can go, Hey, all of our clients that already have companies, here's a coaching program that might help you be better. So in terms of affiliate and those aspects, that's what we're targeting to do.

Cody Bramlett: But there's very few traffic sources out there that drive direct to our kinds of offers. there's ones that'll do the, Hey, for $49, I'll teach you how to buy, do buy ads on Facebook and do this kind of thing. And they're kind of just. Overly promising how you can make millions, but they're only teaching step one of 50. That takes years to get through and those ones can get traffic.

Cody Bramlett: But in our hiring space, it doesn't really exist. And also I don't, I don't necessarily want it. I only wanna help people who are serious. I've already had a handful of cl coaching clients that found me through whatever social media channels or something like that, or saw a podcast that just weren't really into it and quit after three months.

Cody Bramlett: So like, I'm not, I'm not interested in wasting my time with those people. Only serious people that actually want to build a business or have a business that they wanna improve upon.

Sean Weisbrot: It's interesting that you're thinking about partnering with a ClickBank or something like that. I have a pretty wide network and a lot of the people I know are like agency owners, right?

Sean Weisbrot: They'll do digital marketing, they'll do social media, they'll do pr, they'll do, you know. Email, marketing, whatever. So I was thinking that I could actually go to those kinds of people and talk to them about the service I provide. Do you know anyone like that? Or you're just thinking about these larger companies?

Cody Bramlett: Oh yeah, definitely. So within my coaching program, we actually have about 50 videos. And each of those videos, I bring on experts, I bring on people who we work with. We contract with, for example, the best customer service agency I love, they're called Help Grid. I. Phenomenal. They make us money.

Cody Bramlett: They've made me $300,000 in five years. Most customer services cost people money. So you know, I recommend the best people. And of course they give me a little cutback. It says thank you. So we are doing that on that side, but then we're also going back to them now that we have developed our program out, you know, much stronger and saying, Hey, can you share this with your clientele?

Cody Bramlett: Because we want to help raise the entire. Tied up, we wanna lift thewhole industry up. And if you have 25 people that are doing the exact same thing that we're teaching, what I'd love to share it with them because probably 10% of them want to improve their business or realize they need to take that next step to become a CEO, to be able to have an entire team who can build, the offers and the, the, the structure.

Cody Bramlett: And you don't have to work every day in the business, but instead work on the business. and I wanna. Reach out to those groups as well. So we are in that process. I'm excited right now because, you know, I started the coaching year and a half ago and it really was, I wanted to learn from a handful of friends who are in the industry, they were smaller than I, I am, and give them as much of advice as possible, and I learned what their needs were and then I in turn made the program better.

Cody Bramlett: Then I learned what they needed next, and I, in turn, made the program better. And so the whole idea for me is, not to just make as much money as possible right now, it's to build something that has longevity, that actually provides a service that actually is worthwhile in the long run that people don't want to, to leave.

Cody Bramlett: You know, there's, there's EOS, there's, all those big, coaching programs out there for businesses. I wanna be that for the direct marketing supplement space, and that's what we're pushing to do. and yeah, looking forward to it. Affiliates in that world are different from the actual direct to consumer.

Cody Bramlett: but I would consider that idea of like what you mentioned or with ClickBank as an affiliate as well. So it's definitely the same concept.

Sean Weisbrot: What are some things that you're thinking about or struggling with, on either, either business right now?

Cody Bramlett: The biggest struggle of all is what's next, right? So we're coming up with the next offer.

Cody Bramlett: The next best thing is this, you know, with the economy changing and, and taking a downturn, do we wanna make discount brands make them more, more exclusive? Do we wanna have a more aggressive offer that solves a more niche, pro niche problem in someone's life?Are we looking for more general health? We kind of determine what that is.

Cody Bramlett: And it's, it's hard because at this point, science little supplements has kind of run its life course as a brand. And you know, when we had, when we had more aggressive Facebook advertisers advertising us, we had a lot of flack from people because a lot of nobody's weirdo people online who wanna complain about everything, see our ads in our articles, and they're like, nah, I never buy from this company.

Cody Bramlett: They're terrible. And I'm like, you didn't even buy something from me. How can you call me terrible? Like, I provide something that actually works and I have like, you know, five star reviews all over Amazon whatcha talking about. So, we're determining now how to do either. Turn the company into multiple brands or rename it to one larger brand so that way we can have a fresh face.

Cody Bramlett: That's my big one. And the second one is of course, understanding how to structure the team amongst the different services and brands that we have and partnerships I have, so that way there's a cohesive understanding of responsibility for the team. A cohesive understanding of how you're gonna be compensated for bonuses when you achieve your results for the team, and really understanding, you know, who's in charge of what.

Cody Bramlett: So that way I'm not getting asked questions from my fulfillment manager dealing with the warehouse because I'm so far disconnected from that. The only conversation I should be having is with the owner about, Hey, your team's not doing a good enough job. You need to whip 'em into shape. 'cause they're not answering my staff's questions.

Cody Bramlett: Like that's all I should be involved in. so it's, it's making sure that we have the right vertical right company structure and continuing to tweak that I. So it makes sense for the company as it evolves.

Sean Weisbrot: Am I right in saying that it was your brother that kind of taught you about the affiliate model when you first got started

Cody Bramlett: Opposite. So I was involved with Bill Glaser and Dan Kennedy's. They had these, if, if you just haven't heard about 'em, you gotta just type in Bill Glaser, Dan Kennedy. They have a ton of books like No BS Marketing. The term Swipe and Deploy comes from Bill Glazer. Dan Kenney's been around forever. He has tons of letters, tons of stuff about direct marketing, and they teach the idea of storytelling, right?

Cody Bramlett: Story, star solution. There's a story about a person, they found a star or a guru to help them, and they found that solution. And lo and behold, here's the solution. It's an ebook, it's a course, it's a how to, it's a product. And that idea of direct marketing has been done forever. There's, you know, they, they talk about, in there they talk about people who've written stuff for wristwatches and classes and all stuff like that and, and how it's gone from being copy and newspapers and magazines to mail to email and online.

Cody Bramlett: so I learned from them. I was in a, a, a group there trying to figure out how to use that approach from my gym, which I think I did a pretty good job considering I was in a warehouse in the back of a complex. I somehow got 200 members in a very niche kind of. Gym too, teaching Kettlebells only.

Cody Bramlett: It was a very niche gym at the time. and so I kind of learned from that. And then I happened to fall across another, another, group for gym coaching.

Cody Bramlett: And they happened to have a digital marketing course. And I brought my brother to the event the second year and we signed up on how to do that.

Cody Bramlett: And we actually created an entire online video course, kind of like P 90 X but with kettlebell. So we filmed the whole thing at my gym. We had like the little flip cameras that were, like them. The Cannon ZI eighties or something like that, and like the little tiny cameras, and we had microphones and it was just all completely shoestring budget with some friends who could film it took us like six months to edit the whole thing and we, and then we got it done and we brought it back to the coaching group and they're like, well, no one does videos.

Cody Bramlett: It's all PDFs. We'll give it a try. A year later, everyone was doing videos, by the way, so we, we kind of beat him to the punch, but we sold like $20,000 in a week from, we had 1, 1, 1 guy promote us, and then after that we were like, what do we do? My brother's, my brother's wife had just become pregnant, and so he kind of just did his own thing and created an online, training, training how to train people online, train people online kind of things.

Cody Bramlett: And then he expanded that to his huge company as now, and at the time, I had a really successful job making six figures. I called it the golden handcuffs. And, I just didn't care or know what to do next. And so I just kind of quit and was focused on my gym and didn't do the online thing. My brother contained it for the next two years, and understood all those things.

Cody Bramlett: And then we were on a family vacation. I was saying how much I hate my gym and I hate my life. And he's like, you should do supplements. And that idea went from there. And he kind of gave me some advice to get going and took off.

Sean Weisbrot: I made a video, of course, in 2015 I think it was. It was about how to be, how to become a millionaire using WeChat.

Sean Weisbrot: Which is a Chinese application, and I was, I, I was doing some training online with people with Chinese people who could speak English about, you know, positive. Psychology, personal growth and development, emotional intelligence, empathy, these kinds of things. Something that they were so happy about because they really couldn't find it anywhere else in China.

Sean Weisbrot: especially not in Chinese. 'cause those things are, I don't wanna say taboo, but just not really well ingrained in their society yet. And so I decided to take money. I was earning from them and funded a six week trip to Thailand where my sole focus was creating a video course for something else. And I, I went through, I, I did, it took me six weeks.

Sean Weisbrot: Thankfully I wasn't videoing myself. I figured out a way so that I could just do like PPT images, you know, the, the, the slides turn into like, individual JPEGs. And I recorded because like me, I had a lot of experience with recording things with my voice and I knew from my bi my business before that, 'cause I was doing a podcast for that too.

Sean Weisbrot: But there was no video that everyone was like, oh, I love hearing your voice. 'cause this again, I was talking about psychology and all of that in, in English, and they were like, I love your voice. Like some people were like, I, I need to hear your voice before I fall asleep. Some weird, some weird stuff. I had, I had like 10,000 plus people listening to this content.

Sean Weisbrot: This is very strange in China. And so I was like, okay, I know I don't need to record my face for this. I can just use my voice. People like it, whatever. And I did it, it only took six weeks, but like it was all day, every day, like every waking moment. It just focused on making that course. And it was very difficult, but taught me a lot.

Sean Weisbrot: Actually. It was a really cool experience. I put it on Udemy. I didn't have a following for WeChats, like all of my efforts have been in China for Chinese people who could speak English. And this was like, for foreigners who were thinking about being in China or something like that. Totally different audience.

Sean Weisbrot: Had no, no budget for marketing anything. I was, you know, not doing too well yet. And, uh. To this day, I still get cut checks from Udemi, like $5 - $10 a month, like 5, 6, 7 years later. So, the course paid for my trip to Thailand over the last few years.

Cody Bramlett: What you put together there, that is an incredible course, right?

Cody Bramlett: That idea of sharing that. And I know people right now are probably listening to being like, well, what is my. Things. I was stuck on this forever. What is my singular thing? it doesn't have to be special. You don't have to be the best person in the world to know what it is. You don't have to be the biggest expert in the world to teach it.

Cody Bramlett: You just gotta be the best expert in the room, know the most in the room. And so it's understanding where you are and your growth and, and what you can share with someone else. It's understanding, you know, what, what you could put together and the idea of filming an entire course and, you know, selling a course, filming it, and then having a product from it is absolutely, genius.

Cody Bramlett: A lot of people do that concept, especially when you already have people listening to you. I mean, that will be our next way of doing stuff. Right now we're working on how to help CEOs train their staff to run all these weekly, quarterly, yearly meetings. And have all the expectations that myself and my co have.

Cody Bramlett: So we're putting that together and then we're gonna use that with our one-on-one coaching clients and teach them over the next six months to a year, and then when it's done, we'll have another course to sell. So it's, it's really an, you know, understanding to use your leverages, things you do every day that you're proud of, and then teach others how to do that is a potential way to build a company, build a business, build a brand.

Sean Weisbrot: My focus going forward with coaching is gonna be on helping entrepreneurs that are doing like 200 ish KA year. To reach, you know, a million a year or more. And I think that after like a year of coaching people would be an amazing course for people who don't wanna spend the, you know, tens of thousands that would, it would be to run through it, you know, one-on-one over months and months.

Sean Weisbrot: So yeah, I'm looking forward to that because then by the time I get all of those people there and the, and the course is done, then like those people, they're gonna be, you know, into the multiple seven figures. And then it's like, okay, well. What can I help them with then? And then how, how does that turn into a course?

Sean Weisbrot: And then it's like, oh, you know, maybe these guys are hitting eight figures. Well now how do you, you know, help them with that? And maybe that's a course. How do they go from seven to eight? So there's, there's a lot in there for, to look forward to, to, for sure. So what's something that I didn't ask you about that you'd like to mention?

Cody Bramlett: I'd love to kind of talk about the production of your offer, the sales page.

Cody Bramlett: Because you kind of mentioned how you can create a product, especially if it's not in the, in the supplement space. You know, you could do that idea for an exercise program, stretching program. A coaching program of any kind.

Cody Bramlett: A me a, you know, a mindset program. You can create those kinds of things. As long as you have a camera and a microphone, you can make it right. Anybody can do video editing. and The next question is, how do you actually sell it? To get affiliates to promote it. And that sales page is the key. Now there's two types, well, let's say three types of sales pages.

Cody Bramlett: So the first is the, I call it the e-comm hybrid. This is more for a physical product that's a lower ticket and more well known, I call it in the zeitgeist. So turmeric, it's in the zeitgeist. Everyone knows what moringa is now, but it used to be. So we have a page where you can buy one, get three free turmeric.

Cody Bramlett: And it's just a page about how great Teme is. It's kind of like a hybrid of a blog and an e-commerce page. It's got an aggressive close. It's got some teasing at the beginning. It has a little video of me being like, Hey guys, do you wanna reduce inflammation?

Cody Bramlett: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, here's an amazing thing. Have you heard of turmeric? It does all these things for you, and turmeric's great, blah, blah, blah. It's great. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, and right now you can get a great deal and it's guaranteed, right? So we have that entire little short video at the short page, and those are really great for.

Cody Bramlett: Something that's a lower ticket and something that's in the zeitgeist and understandable doesn't require a wealth of explaining five minute videos of explanation. You know, four scrolls and you understand what's going on. The next type of sales page is what's called a long form sales page or a TSL text sales page, text sales lender.

Cody Bramlett: These are almost 10,000 word stories. And earlier I mentioned a story star solution, that kind of concept. This is what they are, they are. Hey, I, you know, was so embarrassed on my 40th birthday. my pants split open and I'm so, you know, not happy. And my husband divorced me because I don't, didn't, you know, the terrible stuff.

Cody Bramlett: I tell a terrible story that happens. These are what grab the emotional connection of somebody and allow someone to feel like they've been listened to or heard for the first time in their life. So many people sit with these dark fears, anxieties and sadnesses, and they're never heard. They're never listened to.

Cody Bramlett: They're never, never shared or spoken to. And these sales pages basically tell their story, but then show them that there is a way out. You can do this exercise program, you can take the supplement. You can follow this mindset course, whatever it may be. So it's telling the person's story of loss and struggle, telling the worst, how they hit their rock bottom, and then telling the story of how they discovered their way to get out.

Cody Bramlett: So like I mentioned in the last podcast we did, how my first sales page was about turmeric. My dad's doctor told him to go eat turmeric, and that kind of developed the whole idea of the sales page. And we told the science of turmeric how it's so amazing how you need bio enema, turmeric to actually get absorption and they can reduce inflammation.

Cody Bramlett: Inflammation is one of the biggest health problems that we don't realize exists in Western society and it's. Killing everybody and making everybody sick. and then we have the pa, you know, but now you can get turmeric. It's amazing. It's easy, it's free.

Cody Bramlett: We'll ship it to you. It's fast. It's guaranteed for 180 days and it's discount below. Save 20%. Get free shipping. Click this button, and those sales pages exist. And the last one, of course, is a video sales letter, which is very similar to the course you were talking about, where traditionally it was literally a slide deck with just text on a screen.

Cody Bramlett: Then someone reading the background and occasionally an image would slide up and they've gotten more advanced.

Cody Bramlett: Where there'll be, the first 15 minutes will be more of a production sometimes filmed with the owners or, or people sometimes just stock footage. 'cause there's so much stock footage in line now, it's insane. and they put together like a little movie at the beginning and then it rolls into that whole story and then, the science behind it, and then the sale and the close.

Cody Bramlett: And so those three types of stories are how you create that sales page. Now the most important part of all, if you are not an accomplished writer right now listening to this, you are not allowed to write your sales page. I'm gonna put my foot down right now. You are not doing it because if you are wanting to start a company and be selling to Phillips to promote you and do direct marketing online, you need to be the CEO.

Cody Bramlett: So what you do is you find a copywriter who can do the copywriting for you. There's copywriters everywhere. 80% of them suck, 20% of them are good. And among that 20%, 80% of them are not probably worth working with. You wanna find that, you know, 4% of the copywriters out there that are amazing, you find them by meeting people at conferences, asking them who wrote their sales page, making those connections.

Cody Bramlett: being in masterminds of people, maybe like you are a sales background person and someone else in the mastermind's, a copywriter. And you're both kind of struggling 'cause you both feel you have half of what you need to get done. Partnership, all of a sudden 50-50 ownership of something you guys put your best efforts in.

Cody Bramlett: And you don't have to pay $20,000 to a copywriter to produce an amazing sales page 'cause you have this, this partnership going on now. or of course, like I said earlier, it takes 10 to 20 grand to start these products. You hire the right copywriter for the right project and you try to get referrals from within a coaching program about who you should use because there's like four copywriters that I use.

Cody Bramlett: That's it. The rest of 'em are. No, I'm not a fan. So it's knowing that story, knowing which avenue you wanna do in your product, avenue of sales page you wanna do for your product.

Cody Bramlett: getting a copywriter to help you produce it. Then from there, design and build, you basically just hire any, any webpage builder you can that's referred to you by someone in one of your coaching groups.

Cody Bramlett: My company does webpage building design. There's dozens that do that. So, they're out there. Those are kind of the key steps you need in order to have that original offer before you can test it. To know the metrics to make the affiliates friends, I really wanna make sure to kind of plant that seed for people out there so they kind of know that there is a.

Cody Bramlett: Prescribed step-by-step checklist of items and, you know, Gantt chart of things to go through. And you know, I teach all that in my course, but it's commonly known knowledge that you can find out there about building offers.

Sean Weisbrot: Thank you very much for your time and your energy, Cody. I appreciate it. Don't forget that entrepreneurship is a marathon, not a sprint.

Sean Weisbrot: So take care of yourself every day. And if you're looking to launch something soon, think very deeply about what you say, how you say it, who you say it to. And how you get the people to come to you, because if you're not thinking about those things, then you don't have a business. A hundred percent. Thank you.