Who Are We Marketing to When 90% of White Collar Jobs Are Gone?

Sean Weisbrot: How has networking created business?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, I mean, it goes way back to the beginning.

Zachary Rischitelli: We've been, um, in, in business 17 years now, and, uh, about six months in, you know, we joined a Chamber of Commerce, um, where, uh, we started to build a lot of, you know, good connections in the community as a Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, you know, we, we.

Zachary Rischitelli: Picked up a client here and a client there through, you know, referrals and interactions through people we met there.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but over the years we've uh, you know, continued to expand.

Zachary Rischitelli: We've tried a lot of different, um, options.

Zachary Rischitelli: Obviously networking's, uh, you know, uh, stayed the same and changed over the last decade and a half.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but you know, even out of those early days, um, you know, we've. Picked up retainer clients that are retainers to this day, you know, 16 years, you know, after they signed on. Um, through building those personal relationships, um, seeing people on a regular basis, uh, building, uh, connection.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, spending the time and energy to get to know people and their business and who they are, and not just a the quick, you know, interaction of, Hey, who do you know?

Zachary Rischitelli: Send me some business cards.

Zachary Rischitelli: Here's my business card.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, it's really about that longer term, uh, relationship.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, um, even, uh, to this day, we're still leveraging relationships we've made out of, uh, you know, that that first organization that we joined.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, now obviously there's, there's other aspects to it.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, we, uh, do our own, um, events and try to get, you know, um, our, our network and our networks network to, uh, to interact.

Zachary Rischitelli: And so, uh, we, we do, um, uh, every other month a networking happy hour where.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, we build out, uh, uh, an invite list from not just ourselves, but you know, other people that we know and try to get, again, everybody's network into a room and, and have those, those interpersonal interactions.

Zachary Rischitelli: And I think that's something that, um, is a huge, huge benefit.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, in today's day and age where everyone's getting bombarded with, you know, LinkedIn requests and, you know, there's certainly an aspect of that that's valuable and should be part of your, your effort.

Zachary Rischitelli: But I think still having that in person, um, interaction.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, continuing to have a real impact on, on the.

Sean Weisbrot: Do you think Gen Z and millennial are represented in these offline events much at all?

Zachary Rischitelli: Millennial for sure.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, yeah, millennial for sure.

Zachary Rischitelli: Gen ZI would say.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, tends to be, and, and you know, some of it's just, you know, where, where they are in the career cycle tends to be the, the salespeople that are, are showing up to these things because I think, you know, one, they're earlier in their, um, you know, career potentially.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, also I think you're. In that role, potentially bringing in the people that are a little bit more, um, you know, extroverted, a little bit more comfortable in, in that in-person space.

Zachary Rischitelli: And then also I think just through the nature of that role, it kind of forces people into that space, whether they're kind of comfortable or not, you know, going out and, and doing that.

Zachary Rischitelli: So I would say millennial for sure, especially as I think they've moved, you know, up in the.

Zachary Rischitelli: In the age bracket in the career, um, seniority to be more, you know, potentially their own entrepreneurs or business owners or, um, you know, people in, uh, more, um, uh, influential positions.

Zachary Rischitelli: Uh, I think, uh, we're seeing definitely that maybe more than we did, you know, eight years ago where it was, I think, similar where the salespeople would show up.

Zachary Rischitelli: But, you know, we didn't see as much of the, um, uh, people further up in the.

Sean Weisbrot: How do you go deeper in building relationships with people?

Sean Weisbrot: Because everyone hates networking and everyone hates small talk.

Sean Weisbrot: So

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: have like a hack that gets you beyond that quickly with someone.

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah.

Zachary Rischitelli: Uh, um, you know, it's, it's the world old world's oldest, uh, hack, which is, um, you know, be, be interested more than trying to be interesting.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and I think it's really about, you know, asking, um, people you know about them, uh, who they are.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, questions beyond just the, um, you know, who are you, what do you do?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, obviously it's a great place to start when you're in a room and you're meeting somebody for the first time.

Zachary Rischitelli: But, um, you know, trying to go beyond that and then, you know, I think the follow up is really important.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, hey, it's been great talking to you tonight.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, I'd love to, you know, pick up this conversation.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, you wanna grab a coffee and, uh, you know, we can chat a little bit more about, uh, you know, your, your upcoming ski vacation plus, you know, I'd love to, you know, get a better sense of, you know, um, you know.

Zachary Rischitelli: How your, uh, you know, business is, is fairing in 2026 and, you know, those sort of things.

Zachary Rischitelli: So, you know, I think going into that follow-up is a big piece of it.

Zachary Rischitelli: And then, um, trying to spend more time, you know, trying to ask actual, you know, questions, um, that are beyond just the who are you, what do you do? Nice to meet you.

Zachary Rischitelli: All right, I'm gonna go talk to the next person.

Zachary Rischitelli: Here's my business card.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know?

Zachary Rischitelli: And so, um, I think that spending that actual time is good.

Zachary Rischitelli: And then also I think just, um, you know, again, something I think we found through our own events is that consistency of every couple of months we're getting together.

Zachary Rischitelli: You've got your regulars, you've got some new people every time.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and then spending time with both the regulars and the new people, and the people that maybe you haven't seen in a couple of months.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, uh, trying to catch up with those folks and, um, you know, what's going on. You know, hearing more about their, their family and their life and those things as you have met them now multiple times.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and again, I, I think it's the world's oldest hack, but it is, it's just spending time being interested in the other person.

Zachary Rischitelli: And then also, um, that consistency, you know, you're not gonna build that relationship in a one and done conversation.

Zachary Rischitelli: So the, the people that you've got some sort of connection with, whether it's on a, you know, similar interest perspective or similar business perspective, um, spending the time and to follow up with.

Sean Weisbrot: When you're a networking event or you have an opportunity to meet with someone, how can you tell if they're interested to actually have that conversation with you?

Sean Weisbrot: What sort of body language are you looking for or something that you may notice that you think other people don't see?

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah, I mean, I think, um, eye contact is a big, big part of it. Um, obviously if, uh, you're having a conversation, some with somebody, and then, you know, in, in that space, you know, you're, you're, um, seeing that they're engaged and you know, actually, uh, you know, having that back and forth if they're kind of looking around or looking past you or, you know, uh, looking, you know, um, down.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, it was generally an, you know, indication of, all right, cool.

Zachary Rischitelli: It was great meeting you.

Zachary Rischitelli: Let me get outta your way.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but the, um, uh, I think the, um, uh, you know, beyond that, there's just kind of the, um, uh, the flow of the conversation.

Zachary Rischitelli: Are they asking questions back?

Zachary Rischitelli: Are they actually getting in, you know, invested in the conversation?

Zachary Rischitelli: Are they asking, uh, follow up questions on, you know, what we were just talking about?

Zachary Rischitelli: Or is it just, you know, the answer?

Zachary Rischitelli: Okay.

Zachary Rischitelli: I guess we're, we're done.

Zachary Rischitelli: There's no, there's no next step there.

Zachary Rischitelli: So looking for that, and I think that's something that, um, maybe is a little bit of a challenge with certain, um, uh, you know, personality types and, uh, you know, and, and some are, you know, are maybe some generational, uh, differences too, where, um, there may be less comfort in a, you know, uh, in a.

Zachary Rischitelli: Environment where you're just meeting a bunch of strangers and, uh, you know, if your, um, you know, personality type is a little bit more introverted, then the, the signs might be a little bit more subtle.

Zachary Rischitelli: But ideally, um, you know, you're finding that that actual genuine connection, if there's not, you know, there isn't one you, you don't force it.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, and that's kind of, you know, I think the.

Zachary Rischitelli: Better philosophy from a, you know, uh, just general business perspective, right?

Zachary Rischitelli: Is that, uh, um, you know, you, you watch for those, um, uh, you know, signs of interest.

Zachary Rischitelli: And if there's not one there, you're, you know, you're not gonna force your way through it. So, you know, we just gotta be respectful of that and all right.

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah, we just don't seem to have any, uh, you know, any, any vibe here.

Zachary Rischitelli: Let's, uh, you know, uh, it was nice meeting you and I'll go talk to somebody else, you know, and I think it's just, uh. Being, um, being respectful of those boundaries, but also looking for, um, those common points of connection that can, um, you know, generate genuine, uh, you know, genuine interest in each.

Sean Weisbrot: You had said that sometimes you look to be more interested in them than interesting for, you know, as yourself when you're walking up to someone you don't know anything about.

Sean Weisbrot: How, and there's no like floating card in front of them that gives you all of the information about them like you can have with a video call.

Sean Weisbrot: Now,

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: how do you figure out what's the right thing to ask them so that they are continued to be interested in having that conversation with you.

Zachary Rischitelli: Sure.

Zachary Rischitelli: I, you know, and you know, it, it is, it's that transition from small talk to an actual conversation that I think everyone can struggle with sometimes, especially if there's not a lot of, you know, back and forth.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, I think, uh, in, um. In general, it's that, uh, looking for those, those opportunities.

Zachary Rischitelli: And I think, you know, yeah, you start with, oh, hey, nice to meet you.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, uh, how'd you hear about the event?

Zachary Rischitelli: Great to see you.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, have you been to one of these before?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, uh, you know, those sort of just kind of just general icebreaker, sort of, you know, hey, I'm just kind of feeling out the conversation and ideally something will come up.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. Oh, hey, you know, it's a, it's a, let's say it's a Thursday event or something.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, did you see that we're gonna have snow this weekend?

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, do you ski?

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, just simple little things that, again, kind of small talkie, but, um, if you can kind of build it beyond just, Hey, how about that weather to some sort of a, you know, let's start up a conversation and, um.

Zachary Rischitelli: And again, so it's not just, oh, I think it's gonna snow this weekend.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's, oh, do you ski?

Zachary Rischitelli: It's Colorado.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, here, that's, uh, obviously a topic of conversation, but, um, and there's a decent chance that, you know, you're talking to somebody who does, and even if they don't. There may be something behind that.

Zachary Rischitelli: Uh, you know, and so again, it's just, uh, I think it's just spending that extra, you know, moment beyond just the, um, that initial question.

Zachary Rischitelli: And then what's the, what's the meat of it, what's the follow up? Um, and then ideally just listening for something else that gives you an entrance into another part of the conversation.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, oh, you're new with your company.

Zachary Rischitelli: Uh. You know, how, how's it going so far?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, were you doing something similar before, you know, whatever sort of thing there, which again, now maybe you can start getting a better history of their background.

Zachary Rischitelli: Oh yeah.

Zachary Rischitelli: I'm with a new company because I moved from Ohio, you know, and Oh, cool.

Zachary Rischitelli: Uh, you know, tell me more about that.

Zachary Rischitelli: So there's, just looking for those opportunities and, and again, trying to keep the.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, the conversation.

Zachary Rischitelli: You get asked a question, you answer that question, you put it back on them, you ask them a question and try to keep that flow.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, you know, usually within a minute or two you have a good sense of, okay, I can spend, you know, another 10 minutes talking to this person and it's gonna be, you know, interesting and valuable or, you know, I'm trying to get blood out of a turnip and they're just not interested in conversation.

Zachary Rischitelli: That's cool.

Zachary Rischitelli: Uh, nice to meet you.

Zachary Rischitelli: Hopefully we'll see you at the next one, you know, so.

Sean Weisbrot: What do you hate about networking?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's an interesting question.

Zachary Rischitelli: I think when, um, when you do kind of get that, um, if, if you're at a networking thing, especially in person one, they can get really exhausting if you kind of go one person after the other and you're just getting that, you know, one word response, they're not really asking questions back.

Zachary Rischitelli: I mean, it can be really exhausting and uh, you know, if you feel like, okay, I've just spent an hour.

Zachary Rischitelli: Talking to people and I met nobody of any interest whatsoever.

Zachary Rischitelli: And you know, whether it's from a, you know, hey, this would be somebody just go fun, have a, you know, let's go have a beer sometime.

Zachary Rischitelli: Or, um, Hey, actually let's sit down and talk business.

Zachary Rischitelli: Like, either way you go through an hour of just no, um, you know, no point of connection, uh, across multiple people.

Zachary Rischitelli: That can get a little bit tiring, uh, sometimes.

Zachary Rischitelli: And I think also depending on the room you're in, um. You can end up in, in situations where maybe that group has more of a cliquey, uh, vibe to it and you kind of go into a space and if people are not themselves kind of moving around and trying to talk to new people and they just kind of plant and you've got, these four people have been talking all night, which is great.

Zachary Rischitelli: Hopefully they're having a great time.

Zachary Rischitelli: It makes it really hard.

Zachary Rischitelli: If you're maybe new in the room, you don't know a lot of people, um, and you're just trying to, you know, strike up a conversation and say hi to somebody.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, that can be challenging too.

Zachary Rischitelli: If you kind of go into a room that's really, really established and you're the new guy, um, it can feel a little bit like you're interrupting, you know, somebody else to go up and talk to 'em.

Zachary Rischitelli: And so that, that can also be a little bit, um, uh, you know, uncomfortable.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. I think, you know, you, you do this long enough and you kinda just get used to it. Um, but those are probably the two where you just feel like you're putting a lot of energy in and you're not.

Zachary Rischitelli: Kind of getting energy back out.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and that can be, that can be challenging.

Zachary Rischitelli: And even if you leave the, the event and you know, you haven't made a great business connection or something, um, hopefully you just met some interesting people.

Zachary Rischitelli: Maybe you got some anecdotes that you can drop in a future conversation. 'cause you heard something interesting about what's going on with, um, this large company in the area and maybe what they're doing in hiring or whatever it is.

Zachary Rischitelli: And that's actually a lot of value too.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's just getting a better sense of what's happening in your business community.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, beyond just again, what's in it for me, there's a lot of information that can be learned, uh, from this, oh, this company's changing leadership.

Zachary Rischitelli: Oh, that might be interesting.

Zachary Rischitelli: Maybe I need to do a little bit of research in that company and see what's going on over there.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, those sort of things.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, you know, we've got a pretty, you know, pretty dynamic, um, you know, business environment here.

Zachary Rischitelli: So there's, you know, companies moving their headquarters here, moving their headquarters out.

Zachary Rischitelli: There's people hiring, there's people laying off.

Zachary Rischitelli: And so, you know, knowing that type of information can be really, really interesting and valuable.

Zachary Rischitelli: Even if you didn't make a great business connection.

Zachary Rischitelli: Maybe you pick something up that's gonna be an interesting conversation piece with somebody else that now you can talk about their space and their industry and that can really get somebody going.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, once you get them excited about what they do. Um, if you have something to. Kind of prime that with, oh, I heard this is going on in your, in your industry.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, I'd love to hear more about it. How's that affecting you guys?

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, so that can be really valuable too.

Zachary Rischitelli: So again, as long as some, some, some sort of energy's coming back out, I think it can, you know, be a valuable night.

Zachary Rischitelli: But, uh, it can be really frustrating when it's just kind of brick wall after brick wall, you know?

Zachary Rischitelli: And I feel like, well, that was a good use of my time, so.

Sean Weisbrot: As you were saying all that, I was thinking about how.

Sean Weisbrot: We have AI that come into a video call and summarizes the notes and sends it to both parties.

Sean Weisbrot: Okay.

Sean Weisbrot: And I was thinking, how cool would it be if there was an ai, you know, sitting as a fly on a wall in a a networking event and was able to categorize and, and summarize all of the conversations that all of the people had and all of the permutations, and then send all of the information as like a report to everybody so that everybody could hear what everyone else talked about, even if they weren't part of the conversation, so that then they could go and use that information as they need.

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah.

Zachary Rischitelli: How do you think people would respond to that if, uh, you know, their individual conversation was now shared, you know, broader?

Zachary Rischitelli: I'm kind of curious, you know, your, your thoughts on that, because I, yeah, certainly.

Zachary Rischitelli: I think there's some value there, um, from a, you know, information gathering perspective.

Zachary Rischitelli: But does that again preclude the, the actual.

Zachary Rischitelli: Connection with a human.

Zachary Rischitelli: If, uh, you say, oh, I noticed in the notes when you were talking to this other person and I never met you that night, that your dog is sick.

Zachary Rischitelli: I hope your dog's okay.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, I'm just, you know, those are the things that, you know, I, I do, I'd worry about in making a less personal, um, you know, space.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and I think that can definitely be, um. A, uh, a potential pitfall sometimes.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, you know, you start to wonder about, you know, you see the things about like meta glasses now, right?

Zachary Rischitelli: People are wearing those out in public.

Zachary Rischitelli: And then there's, you know, the controversy around what's, you know, being not only, you know, shared by them, but what's going back to meta for information gathering that, you know, 'cause it's, it's always recording whether you are sending it to meta or not.

Zachary Rischitelli: Meta is getting that information.

Zachary Rischitelli: That's something that I think people are, are struggling with and grappling with.

Zachary Rischitelli: And in some cases the convenience of it may overpower the, you know, the, the concerns about it. But, um, I think we're still in, in an early stage when it comes to that and, and what people's comfort levels going to be, uh, with potentially one-on-one conversations, becoming group conversations, um, without even thinking about it.

Sean Weisbrot: What I would say is everyone's already giving all of this information to all of the companies anyways just by using their applications for free.

Zachary Rischitelli: I mean, there's, there's definitely that.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and that's something that, you know, certainly from a marketing perspective, I've, you know, I've, I've argued with, you know, uh, you know, or argued for and against as well, is that, uh, you know, yes, they know on aggregate a lot about you and we can serve ads to you that are very, very specific and tailored.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. But is that better or worse?

Zachary Rischitelli: I, I might argue that it's better that I'm actually getting ads that might be of interest to me, and I'm learning about things that are of interest to me as opposed to, you know, I'm, I'm getting ads that have absolutely no, no bearing on my life.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but we've seen how people react to that, you know?

Zachary Rischitelli: 10, 15 years and the, the, you know, increase in, um, privacy lockdowns on, you know, uh, browsers and cookies and those sort of things.

Zachary Rischitelli: And that's had some major effect on, you know, the marketing sphere.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but people had a backlash to it. I don't know if that's, we're past that point where people are less concerned about it.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but uh, you know, it's one of those things where, um, yes, you're sharing all this information on apps, but.

Zachary Rischitelli: You are, um. By default, kind of expecting a level of, of, you know, interpersonal, uh, you know, privacy when you're having a conversation with just another person, that it doesn't necessarily go to everybody else that you actually, you know, can see in that room.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but again, I'm not saying, you know, uh. You know, that's, that's really the right take.

Zachary Rischitelli: But I definitely think it's something that, um, we're gonna be dealing with over the next few years, especially as more smart devices come into those rooms.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, you know, I mentioned meta glasses, but you know, they're, they're relatively obvious now, but you know, they're gonna be less so as time goes on and, you know, are we gonna get past the point of something on your face?

Zachary Rischitelli: And now it's just, you know, a lapel pin or something that, you know, you just walk in a room and it's recording everybody and everything, you know, and, uh, you know, your smart watches and those sort of things.

Zachary Rischitelli: I mean, it's, it's there.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's just.

Zachary Rischitelli: Are people going to, to tolerate it? I, I'm not sure.

Sean Weisbrot: With the company that you have.

Sean Weisbrot: Networking.

Zachary Rischitelli: Mm-hmm.

Sean Weisbrot: How you pitch yourself to people when you're networking?

Sean Weisbrot: Knowing that a lot of companies are capable of using AI to serve their own needs for advertising these days.

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah, absolutely.

Zachary Rischitelli: I mean, uh, we have that conversation all the time and, and our response at this stage and, and AI is continuing to evolve and it's, it's getting better.

Zachary Rischitelli: It is, it is getting to be a, a larger and larger piece of the puzzle.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, right now we make the argument for AI makes us better at our job.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, it makes us more efficient on research.

Zachary Rischitelli: It makes us more efficient on, um, analytics and data processing.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. It is not great at being creative.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's not great at being, um, uh, creating valuable content.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, it can, I think it can summarize things really, really well.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but I think there's a, um, a side to having, um.

Zachary Rischitelli: Human creativity go into it. And it may be, and it may be that this, you know, is for a, a transitional period and you give it a couple more years and now it's, you know, just as creative as, uh, as an actual human, um, with less mistakes and less hallucinations and less just flat out made up stuff.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but, uh, AI still struggles with some really basic things that, um, a human doesn't.

Zachary Rischitelli: And so for now, I think there's this, this space in between.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. As it continues to evolve, maybe it will become a thing where, um, there's a, uh, bespoke nature to it and, you know, there's a certain portion of the population that still wants hand turn butter.

Zachary Rischitelli: And so, you know, there's still a percent of the population that, you know, wants an actual human doing, uh, doing their, um, their marketing.

Zachary Rischitelli: Or it may move into a situation where, yeah, you've got.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, a a dozen AI agents, uh, replacing your marketing department and, uh, they're, they're able to do it at a level of, uh, capacity.

Zachary Rischitelli: I think, you know, there's a lot of existential questions here in the next 10 years, and one of those is gonna be, um, who are we marketing to?

Zachary Rischitelli: And, uh. 90% of white collar jobs have been replaced with ai. Um, there's not gonna be a, you know, the same consumer base that there used to be as well.

Zachary Rischitelli: So I think there's, um, there's gonna be some really interesting conversations over the next 10 years.

Zachary Rischitelli: And I think, you know, there are some, uh, clear use cases that are, we're heading in the direction of.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and I think there are other ones that are gonna be interesting too, to see if. You know, um, you know, I, I, so I, I follow technology quite a bit and, you know, there's, there's some arguments being made that the current, you know, LLM model of AI is gonna hit a ceiling here pretty soon.

Zachary Rischitelli: And it, there's just a certain point at which it can no longer advance and they're gonna have to find a new model, um, you know, beyond that.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, um, it will be interesting to see, you know, if that turns out to be the case or not.

Zachary Rischitelli: And there's just, there's a limit on it, and this is as far as the current version can go and something else has to come along.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. But again, it's gonna be very interesting, uh, you know, five to 10 years.

Sean Weisbrot: What I have seen is people on what's called, uh, like world models,

Zachary Rischitelli: Mm-hmm.

Sean Weisbrot: where instead of focusing on. Learning language and based on language, learning how to do tasks, giving it eyes, and you know, basically tying AI to robotics so that can learn about the world through experience like humans do. Because language is one aspect of how we learn, and obviously the other senses are really important.

Sean Weisbrot: So there was a guy who left.

Sean Weisbrot: I think it was meta.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah, I think it was Y French, the French scientist.

Sean Weisbrot: He started his own company to focus on world models and I think he raised a billion dollar seed round to make that happen.

Sean Weisbrot: So I believe the future is this world model type, uh,

Zachary Rischitelli: Mm-hmm.

Sean Weisbrot: system, but it's not really well known yet.

Sean Weisbrot: And there's not really any use cases that are.

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the, the earlier stages of that would be like your self-driving cars and things like that, right?

Zachary Rischitelli: Where they're being put into the world, they're attached to a machine, they've got sensors, they're out there interacting at scale.

Zachary Rischitelli: Obviously you've got your laboratory versions of this, but, um, you know, and that, you know, is something that is continues to evolve and is getting.

Zachary Rischitelli: Progressively, you know, you know, intermittently better.

Zachary Rischitelli: And we're to the point now where there are some self-driving cars out on the road and, um, you know, it, it's, it's gotten there.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's taken a long time and a lot of energy, but it's going to accelerate.

Zachary Rischitelli: I do think that's, you know, absolutely.

Zachary Rischitelli: I think an interesting, um, you know, next step here, I think one of the challenges will, that be with, that will be what's the scale look like?

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, are we at the point where we can, um, uh, cost effectively?

Zachary Rischitelli: Create these, you know, real world, you know, um, uh, devices that are moving around and interacting with the world in a, in a way that can, um, can add value at scale.

Zachary Rischitelli: Because again, this, you know, it's, right now you can just throw everything in a data center and have it process, and you can do it at scale.

Zachary Rischitelli: Can you do that at, you know, at a, at a cost effecti scale?

Zachary Rischitelli: But, you know, you mentioned the, the seed rounds and there's a lot of money floating around in it. Um, it'll be, uh, I think again, very telling in the next five, 10 years, which are the, the companies that kind of make it through and find that next step and find that differentiation and which are the ones that, uh, that don't make it.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, there's a lot of, of, of space there.

Zachary Rischitelli: I think we can look at it from just a purely functional perspective.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and I think there's also a societal level, you know, conversation to have.

Zachary Rischitelli: And again, I don't know if we're, um. Ready to have it in the time we've got allotted to have it before, you know, we've, we've crossed certain, um, thresholds on it, but, um, you know, when there are no, um, uh, incentives to, you know, having a, a human interaction beyond what you can do in front of a screen, now you've got even less human interaction because you've got, you know, um, uh, chat bots and, uh, you know, AI agents doing the interaction and the labor and, you know, you go online.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's just one bot talking to another and you've got your, um, you know, shopping options and that's all happening in a, you know, closed environment.

Zachary Rischitelli: And is chat GBT recommending that product because it's someone's paying it to recommend that product? 'cause there's gotta be a, you know, uh, there's gonna be an ad model here very, very soon.

Zachary Rischitelli: They're already, you know, testing it out.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, I think there's gonna be just another layer of what does this do at a societal level?

Zachary Rischitelli: And then again, who are the consumers once, um. You know, there are, uh, uh, machines doing, you know, 90% of the jobs that we currently have, and there will certainly be new jobs that come outta this, but are they gonna be at scale that, uh, sustain, you know, the number of people that are gonna be looking for them?

Zachary Rischitelli: So I think there's, uh, a philosophical side to it that, uh, uh, I think we need to be having that conversation.

Zachary Rischitelli: I think it's being, um. Probably limited in a lot of ways beyond the scale that we should be having the conversation.

Zachary Rischitelli: Because right now it's a convenience and sometimes a novelty and, you know, it'll be what, what comes next though?

Zachary Rischitelli: That, um, again, next five to 10 years, we're gonna have some pretty significant,

Sean Weisbrot: What do you think comes next?

Zachary Rischitelli: um, I mean there's the, uh, dystopian version and then I think there's the, um. Delayed version.

Zachary Rischitelli: I don't know.

Zachary Rischitelli: There's a utopian this, um, I think dystopian is.

Zachary Rischitelli: Society, economies, uh, you know, day-to-day life and how we react to that and how we, um, you know, go forward from that is gonna have, you know, I think be very, very telling.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, I think there's the, the version where, um, we find a little bit of an equilibrium here because we hit a limit of what the current, you know, systems and models are capable of and maybe.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, delays, uh, you know, for another 10 years.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, because, you know, new systems have to be developed and trained and, you know, whatever, you know, something that goes beyond the limitations of the current models.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and then, you know, you know, there's maybe a version of this, and that's the utopian one, which I, I don't know that we're having that conversation to head in that direction, but, you know, maybe it is, it's, Hey, we don't have to do.

Zachary Rischitelli: Work in order to sustain ourselves anymore.

Zachary Rischitelli: So it doesn't matter if there are any jobs, but uh, that's a societal shift at a scale I don't think we've ever seen.

Zachary Rischitelli: So, um, it will be very, very interesting to see what happens, um, because, uh, um, yes, every new technology brings with it new opportunity.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but this one I believe is.

Zachary Rischitelli: Going to be so significant that, um, the volume of new work that comes out of this new technology, I don't think it's gonna be there to replace the work that it, uh, it dissipates.

Sean Weisbrot: What's the most painful problem you're trying to solve right now?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um,

Zachary Rischitelli: yeah, I think it's, it's a lot of the, uh, the same, um, problems that, you know, business owners, owners have dealt with for generations.

Zachary Rischitelli: I think it's just in a slightly.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, different spin.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's, yeah.

Zachary Rischitelli: What do we do as far as what is a sustainable business model now?

Zachary Rischitelli: What is a sustainable bus, sustainable business model in three years and then five years?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and what does that look like from, you know, what we're doing from a staffing perspective, what we're doing from a, you know, infrastructure investment perspective.

Zachary Rischitelli: What does this look like from a, um, you know, experimenting with.

Zachary Rischitelli: New, you know, newer and more untested, uh, approaches.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and where can we find, uh, in the short term optimization that creates, um, opportunity and value?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and then it's in the midterm, it's how do we, um, shift to deliver things that, uh, people are not.

Zachary Rischitelli: Getting out of ai. Um, and then down the road it's, um, what does this look like when, you know, we have major economic shifts and societal shifts that none of us are really quite sure how fast or what shape they're gonna take.

Zachary Rischitelli: So,

Sean Weisbrot: Let me rephrase that.

Sean Weisbrot: What's currently the most painful problem that you're trying to solve?

Sean Weisbrot: An immediate problem.

Zachary Rischitelli: sure.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um.

Zachary Rischitelli: I, I think right now the, the most immediate problem I'm trying to solve is, um, being kind of a smaller to mid-size company and we're 20 ish people.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, is that, uh, there are still.

Zachary Rischitelli: Jobs that are mine as the founders, the owners, the, you know, the principal that, um, in a larger company would not be mine.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but at this size company are, and what are the best ways to replace me in those kind of fractional jobs?

Zachary Rischitelli: And that is something that we're, you know, I, I'm, anyway, experimenting with, uh, trying to figure out are there.

Zachary Rischitelli: Ways for AI to take some of this stuff that is a, a fractional role that, um, is not necessarily the best use of my time, but makes no sense to, you know, hand off to anybody at the scale we are.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, I think that's something that a lot of business owners are, you know, have been dealing with forever and I think now there's some different ways to approach that.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, is it bringing in fractional help?

Zachary Rischitelli: Is it bringing in. Um, uh, you know, new tools.

Zachary Rischitelli: Is it training AI agents to, to take that on? Um, or are those, uh, certain things just kind of part and parcel of running a business of the size and, um, that's probably the thing that, um, uh, I think creates the most opportunity for us.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, I also think it's the thing that, you know, potentially, uh, creates the most limitation for us. And so it's, uh, how do you, um, how do you scale?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. Especially when you're not sure that scaling, um, is the answer in the next, you know, three years.

Zachary Rischitelli: So,

Sean Weisbrot: How do you assess each of those pieces in order to come to a decision?

Sean Weisbrot: About what's the right thing to do right now?

Zachary Rischitelli: yeah.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. Research, uh, you know, uh, blue skying, whiteboarding, you know, all the things that are like, okay, these are, you know, um, these, you know, basically it's, it's the, uh, um, I dunno if you're familiar with, with EOS, uh, but you know, they've got a, uh, a. Uh, problem solving system called, uh, IDS, which is, you know, identify, define, and solve.

Zachary Rischitelli: And it's basically that it's, all right, let's really define what this problem, or identify what this problem is. Let's really figure out all the, the intricacies of it. What's, what are the challenges?

Zachary Rischitelli: What are the pros?

Zachary Rischitelli: What are the cons?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, uh, you know, how do we further define that into okay, practically, you know, um, what is the effect this is having?

Zachary Rischitelli: What's the outcome that we're looking for?

Zachary Rischitelli: All that.

Zachary Rischitelli: And then it's. You know, alright, how do we solve this?

Zachary Rischitelli: And so some of that can be done with, um, uh, you know, just good old fashioned, uh, you know, what are other people doing?

Zachary Rischitelli: And some of that really needs, you know, bigger group discussion, you know, within our leadership team.

Zachary Rischitelli: And some of that is, um, just kind of looking at, all right, I'm spending an inordinate amount of time on this, this week.

Zachary Rischitelli: What does that mean for next week in the future weeks?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, yeah, so again, it's, I think it's, that process is something that we've, we've taken to heart and, um, you know, each one has its own outcome, but, uh, that's, that's the process that, uh, we generally go through.

Sean Weisbrot: How long does it typically take for you to be able to come to a conclusion?

Sean Weisbrot: Because I know businesses are pushed or founders are pushed to move fast,

Zachary Rischitelli: Hmm.

Sean Weisbrot: but what's the reality?

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah, I mean, it's, um.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's both right?

Zachary Rischitelli: You wanna be measured, you wanna be dec, you know, you wanna be, um, you know, educated, you wanna make the right decisions, you wanna have the plan.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but you can sit there and navel gaze forever and, you know, keep complaining about the issue and keep trying to think it through.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, you know, at some point you have to pull the trigger and actually get it done.

Zachary Rischitelli: There's also the bandwidth issue of, um, what is the bandwidth that goes into solving this problem and when does that become available?

Zachary Rischitelli: And so, you know, sometimes it's, yes, I can.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, make a decision act on it right now.

Zachary Rischitelli: And so other times where it's, yes, I can make a decision, I can act on it, you know, uh, next quarter, you know, and it just kind of depends on what the, um, what the issue is and, and what the bandwidth available is.

Zachary Rischitelli: But I, I try to, I try to really process through everything in as much detail as I can.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. Think it through, kind of come up with a solution.

Zachary Rischitelli: I like to bounce it off of, you know, certain people within the organization that, um, you know, may have some insight in it. Am I missing anything?

Zachary Rischitelli: Is one of my, you know, biggest questions when I explain this is where we're headed.

Zachary Rischitelli: This is what I'm thinking about doing.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, what am I, you know, what, what are my blind spots?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and then it's, uh, once the decision's made, it's all right.

Zachary Rischitelli: We're, you know.

Zachary Rischitelli: We're riding this through.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, um, you know, uh, in, in an ideal world, uh, it was the right decision.

Zachary Rischitelli: Everything works out.

Zachary Rischitelli: And if it wasn't, you know, you give it a proper go and then you go back to the IDS and say, okay, we have a new problem.

Zachary Rischitelli: Is it just to undo what we did?

Zachary Rischitelli: Or, you know, was it tweaking it or is it, uh, we need a different solution, or whatever.

Zachary Rischitelli: It's, but yeah, going back to that, uh, that process.

Zachary Rischitelli: Perfect.

Sean Weisbrot: Jeff Bezos say that there's some doors that are one way and some doors that are two

Zachary Rischitelli: Mm-hmm.

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: where there's some decisions you can make that you can undo and there's some decisions.

Sean Weisbrot: You can't.

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: What is a, what is a door you closed behind you and weren't able to reopen and you regretted?

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um,

Zachary Rischitelli: so we've done a, we've done a handful of acquisitions over the last, uh, six years.

Zachary Rischitelli: We've done, we've done three different ones.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. Two are relatively small.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, you know, it's still a lot of work when you're, um, you know, merging two systems and two teams and technology sets and all the things that go into that and integrating the clients into workflow.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, there's still a lot of, a lot of, a lot of energy and effort that went into it. Um, and then there was a third one that we did, uh, where it was a little bit larger, a little more complex, um, came with larger expenses.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and that one is one that, um, you know, I think has worked out, uh, will work out better in the future.

Zachary Rischitelli: Did not work out nearly as well as the other two.

Zachary Rischitelli: And in hindsight.

Zachary Rischitelli: This one, you know, is taking way more work than it probably should have.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, you know, there was probably some mistakes I made there.

Zachary Rischitelli: And that was one of those ones where you, you move forward, you go down the road, you pull the trigger, and now you just have this thing.

Zachary Rischitelli: And the only way forward is forward.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, it's, it's, it's not really something you can just undo, um, because here it is, it is now part of your organization and you gotta, you know, you gotta figure out how it, how it fits.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, and I think that's where, um. You know, you kind of, you, you obviously you learn from that.

Zachary Rischitelli: You find out, okay, what are the things I missed?

Zachary Rischitelli: How do I do it better next time?

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but you also look for that as opportunities to say, okay, you know, these are the things that are fixable and we can move forward on. These are the things that are not, and you just go away.

Zachary Rischitelli: And so you maybe, you know, shut down part of, uh, that, you know, that organization or what have you.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, um, you know, again, you just look at, um. What do you have control over?

Zachary Rischitelli: And, uh, you know, how do you build a, a roadmap forward?

Zachary Rischitelli: And again, same sort of thing.

Zachary Rischitelli: What's, what's the real issue and, um, what's the solution we're gonna implement and, you know, you just move forward

Sean Weisbrot: What's the most important thing you've learned in life so far?

Zachary Rischitelli: in life.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um,

Zachary Rischitelli: I, uh, it's a very big question.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um.

Zachary Rischitelli: Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's a, a super unique thing, but it's something that I think people, uh, you know, learn at different stages in their life.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, um, I think it takes a lot of different, uh, twists and turns, uh, sometimes to, uh, to get there.

Zachary Rischitelli: But, um, and I think fundamentally you always know it's there, but it's how do you, uh, how do you prioritize it?

Zachary Rischitelli: But, um, you know, really finding that balance between.

Zachary Rischitelli: Running a business, and these are all the things I have to do to keep that going.

Zachary Rischitelli: And I've got staff that relies on me. I have clients that rely on me. My family relies on, you know, this business.

Zachary Rischitelli: You know, these are, there's a lot of, um, things relying on that.

Zachary Rischitelli: But then, um, also being able to step back and actually spend the time and energy with your family and, uh, you know, finding that balance between the two.

Zachary Rischitelli: And I think sometimes, you know, um, everyone talks about work-life balance, but.

Zachary Rischitelli: Sometimes as a business owner, that's not always an option.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um, but there is a a point where you have to, you know, kind of force force some of that back in there because no matter how many people are relying on you to keep that business going, 'cause you have that momentum, you have those responsibilities, you have those commitments.

Zachary Rischitelli: Um. Finding that, okay, no, but this is, this is separate.

Zachary Rischitelli: This is something that, you know, is also, um, you know, needs to be a priority.

Zachary Rischitelli: And, uh, yeah, I mean, I think it's something that everybody, you know, has to figure out for themselves a little bit of where that balance is and, uh, you know, what are the, the dueling responsibilities and push and pull, but making sure that, you know, you've got your, um, you know, you've got your space for, um, other aspects of your life.