An 8-Figure E-commerce Founder's AI Toolkit

Sean Weisbrot: Neil Twa is the CEO of Voltage Holdings, which owns interest in different industries like e-commerce SaaS and more. In this episode, we talked about what it's like running multiple companies, the AI that he's using to build out these different businesses, and the support he's providing to the companies that he's investing in and acquiring. As well as mentoring and coaching and much more. So the focus is very heavy on e-commerce and ai. So if you're interested in either of those topics or definitely the combination of the two, then you're going to love this episode. Let's get to it. What is the current state of AI in the e-commerce industry?

Neil Twa: Well, it's depend upon whether or not you're using AI to develop an AI business or like us if you're using AI to enhance. Pro, you know, productivity to time, compress activities that may have taken weeks, uh, to days or hours, uh, or to utilize it in the, uh, competition of your product or service in the market. We use it to enhance, uh, the, the competition of our marketing as well as the products that we market within our brands. So AI has got about a, about three different levels we use it at within our business for the research, the modification and management marketing. And the distribution of products through marketing channels. So AI has, has been great at, uh, compressing that time, finding that data and making sure the right people see it at the right time.

Sean Weisbrot: I was on LinkedIn earlier today and someone said, I see so many people wasting so much money launching the wrong product. So I built this thing that. You know, does all of the research and blah, blah, blah in 30 seconds and just DM me this thing. Like what do, do you believe in these kinds of giveaways? Are they realistic for starting founders?

Neil Twa: Well, you know, every marketer has an angle, right? Uh, so for us, you know, 12 years of selling physical products and building multi seven A figure brands, I can tell you that there's a need to find the right product. Uh, to sell in the market. But here's the thing, you know, if you don't understand the data of demand, if you don't understand the market, uh, demand, then it doesn't necessarily, you know, follow you with the product you're leading. Like so many people think, they think, I need to invent a product and I lead the market. That's demand creation. That's 1% of people. The other 99% innovate. So in that way, if you are able to determine the right data. For your product and use the AI systems of the internet to help propagate the distribution of that product to the right audience just in time then, yeah, there's truth to that statement. For us, product research is a, you know, what the hell do I sell as a huge component of our business model. If we sell the wrong data, then the AI engines that pr, you know, move the Internet's data around from Amazon to Google to TikTok, to wherever are going to move it in front of the wrong people. The same way an advertising campaign in a direct marketing is gonna be wrong. If you don't know your audience, you're not speaking them to them correctly, then when the AI systems show, you know your advertising to the wrong people with the wrong message, you're not gonna convert them into sales. We have the same product, you know, on the physical product world. So again, yeah, there's truth to that. It's just a matter of understanding the differences in the two components. Many people think we sell products in brands, which is actually the second truth, and they miss the first truth, which is we sell data to an AI engine.

Sean Weisbrot: What. Kind of AI companies are you using or can people use for that purpose?

Neil Twa: So there's a, a couple of different things. We, we developed our own AI research tool for us called Cayman Data. But on the other side of that, I use things like chat, GTP to help with product. Um, you know, research, but also we created virtual agents inside of our system where we fed it 10 years of information, data, transcripts, our playbook and, and other information, information about our products and current brands. And then we use that to help curate, uh, information, research and, uh, even down to policy checking and information to ensure the compliance of the product, the copy itself, uh, and any, you know, any images and graphics will also be tested by AI to ensure that they match the narrative. So there are, uh, we use, uh, I, I like Claude personally in terms of copywriting. It has a natural language query, uh, and, and some tan, you know, syntax to it that feels more humanized in its conversational tonality. So we use that a lot. Uh, for Claude particularly, um, we use Soro for images and image generations as well as, um, taking and conceptually remixing images to get other ideas or ways to approach both the marketing as well as the product development as well as, uh, images and copy. Soro has been amazing. With that, it's a version of chat gtps, you know, AI engine for graphics creation, which has been very cool. The marketing team uses hey in a lot, which is actually just got in its fourth variation, which is pretty darn cool. Um, they're now syncing up audio to the lips and mannerisms so closely that we're we're borderline deep fake. I give about six months before it's so close to realistic that most people are not gonna be able to tell. It's still that close right now that, that it has that AI feel that people kind of starting to distinguish the longer they look and the more they see. But I'd say we're about six months away from the next two releases in which that almost becomes indistinguishable. Uh, and product placement and images and stuff can be used with those videos very quickly, uh, in, in many different ways. Uh, we use AI to generate product image videos we can go to. Um, there's one called sibi.io, uh, and that you can literally give it your product. Then pointed at Amazon's URL. It pulls down images, graphics, and copy and makes a 32nd video ad with the primary bullets driven out of the image and copy. So you can literally just do push button marketing ads now, which is quite crazy. Um, for anything we put into the listings themselves or we push out to any social media accounts.

Sean Weisbrot: Wow. A few years ago when I started an e-commerce brand, there were none of these offers and I didn't know anything, so I had to do everything myself. And I started and it was just like. What the hell am I supposed to do? Oh, you gotta find this guru. You gotta find this agency. This one's gonna help you with your marketing. This one's gonna help you with your ads. This one's gonna help you with your webpage design. This one's gonna set up your Shopify. And what I've seen now is like I've built a software from scratch myself using a program called Lovable. Now I'm using Cursor. Cursor allows me to choose different AI models. I'm actually working with Claude. Uh, you had mentioned I'm working with Claude 3.7 sonnet and I find it to be very stable, very interesting model to code with. So, uh, I feel like. You could very easily now launch a product with hopefully the right research if you have access to the right data to make your website. Like with Lovable, I was able to create an e-commerce brand website that was like really nice and custom for what I was doing in five minutes. Then it took me like two hours to actually make, you know, the, the blog system work and to create a cart system and checkout. And like I had to manually create all of those pages 'cause it doesn't know, um. But it was really cool that, you know, like the last website I built, I paid $4,000 to some guy, like I knew him, right? He, he's got an agency out of South Africa, but it took like a month for us to go through everything and design everything and then to get every single page. And then I had to hire a developer and, and now, for example, ai, you can just one shot a website and then spend a little bit of time to make some tweaks to make the rest of it. Work,

Neil Twa: you can mock the whole thing up. Top down. We're, we're pushing our green light software out here this summer to do something similar. And all the mockups are being used by ai. So we're doing rapid deployment of mockups for the entire front end, the funnel and everything that's gonna power the front end of that, uh, is being done with ai, which is, uh, know time compressing, but also moving extremely quickly through the process.

Sean Weisbrot: Are you going to create an agent that you can tell it and then it, like you say, I want to create a website for. Uh, so my idea was vegan dog traits. I didn't go through with it. Um, but like, I wanna, I want a vegan dog treat website, and it makes all of the mockups for every page. It knows all of the pages that you're gonna want it to have based on a, a standard. You go, yeah, we're gonna need a contact. And about a privacy terms cookies, we're gonna need a contact and a checkout and a card. Like, so you have like this list of all the pages and you go, I need you to create content for all these things. This is the color scheme I want you to use, right? Like, and then the AI just goes and creates all the mockups and makes it all work and fills in all the content.

Neil Twa: Ours is gonna do something similar to that. Uh, but on the listing creation side for, say, Amazon's platform, uh, for that side, it is literally down to, you know, which product and customer need is the AI engine telling us. We're using Amazon's actual data that we now have access to, to tell me exactly what customer needs and customer intent needs are being driven by Amazon 700 billion a year. And I have that data now and we have agents that are using, uh, that data to go in and top down, find out where it is, which product it is, where it lives in the system, and how the AI is actually seeing it. So then we can take that data, feed it to more AI agents and tools that write the copy, create the images, and then we can build a product around that. Get it manufactured and sourced and then test launch it in the system and do it in less than 12 weeks.

Sean Weisbrot: Do you have an agent that can source and negotiate with the factories too, or No?

Neil Twa: I don't have one of those yet because there's so many human calculated interactions. It's not a very straightforward process, so it still requires a human oversight. But we have AI agents running on just about everything else, uh, that you can do to negotiate, uh, you know, PPC management and, and machine to machine competition of. The, the cost per click, the budgeting, the keywords and tracking. That's done by PPC, uh, AI agent management. Now, uh, the listing is written by an AI agent to natural humanized language. Uh, that is very indistinguishable. We even have poll simulations for the images, the copy, the listings themselves, where we can take simulated polls that have been built through agents that then basically act like a virtual audience of thousands to tens of thousands of people, and then come back and tell us what they think about the product, which one they like, which variation they like, which image they would choose, which title they would choose, and then we'd build the listing based off of those agents output. And they are extremely accurate. We used to take 'em to personal focus groups and websites that would have real people do that for us and pay for that service. But then we decided to feed it all our information, build agents instead, and now we use those.

Sean Weisbrot: I heard that, I can't remember who it was. Somebody predicted and or is betting money that the first billion dollar company run by a single person with some AI agents is gonna be in the next two years.

Neil Twa: I've seen companies. That are running at eight figures with a single person and three people, so why not a billion? It's just a matter of time. It's a matter of process and the amount of reaching the right amount of people with mass marketing in the, in the machine of the internet. It's not impossible to reach billions of people who could pay you a dollar or more, or hundreds of million people who, who you know, who pay $10 to $20 for your product. It's actually not impossible. The system and economics are already there. It's the mechanisms that are being, uh, you know, played with, uh, in terms of how those act. Um, and that's just, you know, a strategy that is now being deployed through the tactics of ai. But it's not new. And AI is, is not new. I know some people think it's new, but I was working on it 20 years ago at IBM when we were building latent semantic engines and knowledge management engines on human machine language learning that were programming the first large language models. Uh, and we were spending some time on the Watson Super blue computer doing it in arm Munk, New York, and we were having 40% accuracy rates from inbound calls on customer service lines, telling people with 40% accuracy why they called. So this is not, this is going on for a long time. What we're just seeing now is tip of the iceberg from, from Ahi,

Sean Weisbrot: if it's possible to make massive amounts of money by having, you know, like you were saying, a small team and, and agents and all of that. And the fact that there's so many people that wanna start e-commerce brands. I mean, there's gotta be at least a million gurus globally that are selling e-commerce stuff to, to people to start e-commerce brands. Why not? Make your AI available to the masses for a dollar, $2 a month, $5 a month, $10 a month, and make billions of dollars to selling access to these models, to these agents.

Neil Twa: You absolutely could, and I would challenge anybody who, who wants that in life, which also comes with the people and the challenges and the stuff that goes behind it, if that's what they want to do in life, more power to them. But I prefer to have come past that part in my life and realize that the opportunity, the quality of life, the way we run our business, how I partner with other people versus having, like you and I were discussing earlier, 40 I. Employees, uh, and all the heartache and pain and challenges and, and situations that come with that. I got to 12 employees and realized I didn't want four times that many. Um, I wanted less. I wanted to do it a different way and not, you know, that's, everybody has different goals and desires for us. I just, we just didn't feel that we wanted to create our own brands. We wanted to optimize each brand through processes and technology so that we didn't need, you know, that many people, and we're now down nine brands deep. So at some point we're going to continue to replicate a process. And so we're like, well, that's. You know, I don't have any fun in this anymore. I have too much stress, I have too many people. I don't get to enjoy my life or spend time with my daughters. Uh, so it's just, again, it's down to individual goals. Somebody else might wanna go do that. Um, you know, I think that the difference for me is understanding that, yeah, you could build a course and you can go do those things. And we could have done that a while ago, but I had more fun with the business. I have more fun building the companies. I have more fun seeing them mature. And seeing people, you know, become happy with the products and want more of them. As we create different variations in brands. And I see the opportunity as we've moved now into the investment side and the, you know, equity place we have with companies we're acquiring and through acquisition, we can take some of that opportunity too, but still control it in such a way where it doesn't overtake our lives. And that's one of the benefits of using tools in AI, I believe, is that you can have a force multiplier. Your efforts or the efforts of a single operator, instead of having 10 people behind it. I have one operator that can run an entire company with five systems, and with that I can have one operator run three of those companies comfortably without spending 80 hours a week doing it because those systems of automation and stuff are in place. Again, there's a, the phrase, work smarter, not harder, comes into play. I think the first person capable of reaching a billion is gonna work really hard to do it, and that's okay. And that might be somebody's drive. It's just no longer my drive. I went past that curve somewhere in my history and realized it was more fun to do the business than to try to convince other people they need to do the business right, and then make money off of them, because I tried to convince them to do that. So I'm more interested in building the businesses and working with those who actually want to do it, see the intrinsic value. And then because I'm a buyer of businesses, I want to put myself in a position later on to be in an acquisition with them. And that's the what I, you know, that's how I've chosen to do it, which isn't gonna make me the first person to be, you know, an independent person building a billion dollar company in that way, but more power to the person who will, 'cause it's gonna come.

Sean Weisbrot: Hey, just gimme 10 seconds of your time. I really appreciate you listening to the episode so far, and I hope you're loving it. And if you are. I would love to ask you to subscribe to the channel because what we do is a lot of work and every week we bring you a new guest and a new story. And what we do requires so much love so that we can bring you something amazing. And every week we're trying really hard to get better guests that have better stories and improve our ability to tell their stories. So your subscription lets the algorithm know that what we're doing is fantastic. And no commitment. It's free to do. And if you don't like what we're doing later on, you can always unsubscribe. And either way, we would love a, like if you don't feel like subscribing at this time, thank you very much and we'll take you back. I like that you said that because there's a lot of people who think that. These guru guys that are saying, oh, I've, I've made millions of dollars doing this thing and I'm gonna teach you how to do it. They've actually made their money from selling you how to do it rather than doing it themselves.

Neil Twa: They have truth and integrity and they really are helping people, again, more power to them. But more often than not, I. This is where the challenge comes when the money comes from that, you know, selling 10,000, $3,000 courses a month, it's pretty hard to turn it down and you wanna do it more. Greed and factors play into that, more so than helping the individual people do that. The way I'm set up to help people is in a mentorship, if they wanna work 12 months with the, you know, 12 months with us, it's a one-on-one, but it's a high fee, and they have to be serious about actually building something that becomes a saleable asset, which is part of my goals, which I don't do with everybody. I might do it with three, four people a month. If I find them in some months, I'll go two or three months and don't find anybody that's worth al for. And I prefer that 'cause I'm already running my own businesses, I'm already got my own brands. We're already very, you know, busy with our businesses and product partnerships and you know, as we're acquiring companies, I'm very busy with that too. So, uh, here very soon that component of the mentoring is actually disappearing. And we're gonna be, you know, primarily leading with software and service platforms and training, uh, for those things while we stay busy with our own brands.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah, I think software is a great way forward. I, I had a tech company before that I let go almost three years ago, and I never thought I would be involved in software again. And because of AI, I now find myself back in a position where I can actually build and. I find myself unable to tear myself away from the computer. I can just sit with the AI for hours going, alright, what should we do next? And so, okay, based on what we've just done, we should probably standardize our error handling. All right, well let's

Neil Twa: do that. Yeah. You're passionate about the data. I get it. And, and we're going back into software too, which I sold my software company like three years ago and didn't figure out we would be back. We had an internal team. We were running it for ourselves. We have developed it only behind our NDA. Then the realization is that we could, you know, this is a mass marketing tool to help people understand, you know, exactly what to sell. And I play with my own tool more and we see the way that it's pulling the data and I have, uh, 99.999% trust in the data because it was given to me by Amazon. So I know that what they're telling me is actual data on these products. With that. I have a lot of fun playing around in this tool that we built because I'm going in there all the time looking for new product ideas and we're constantly sending 'em over to the team. You are like, well, what about this one? That's a great one. Why? Because it sells 30,000 units a year on average. Uh, there's only 17 competitors. There's a good chance we can tap into that market as long as our profitability metrics match up with our, our buy box, what we call our green light process. Then cool, let's go see if we can test it out. Let's grab a hundred units and go play with it. If a hundred units sell, well, let's go grab a thousand. So there is a lot of fun just playing with the things you can build. Geeking out on it. And now that we have that, I'm like, well, we could give this out to everybody else, so let's launch the software. So that's one of the things we're changing this year, is to let everybody else go geek out. 'cause once you see the data and fun, you're gonna be like, huh, I, I suppose I could actually do this. And when you have the data tools behind it, you're like, great. Then I just have this, write the copy, and then I have those images created here, and then I test it in the market and find out if it sells. Okay, let's see what happens.

Sean Weisbrot: It's like one click spin up a full team.

Neil Twa: It literally is a multi-team platform that, you know, I don't have to know every aspect yet of the tactical components, but if I understand I have an e-commerce business opportunity and, and maybe I'm gonna incubate my first channel on Amazon and find out if I can capture the demand in the market with 49% market share, there's a good chance there's a lot of demand you might capture. Then I can take that into multiple sales channels later on, and I can make a holistic e-commerce company when I do that. If I've put some time, energy, you know, attention and money into it for four to five years, I have an asset, a saleable asset. That's a, that's a win, right? I'm not just flipping products for profit side hustle in my way into a few thousand a month. You do this right, you know, 10, 20, 30,000 more a month is realistic with an e-commerce business, and, uh, somebody else wants to buy it from you too. That's the big part. You're building something that someone else wants to buy.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. I've come across multiple people that will help you to sell or they have, uh, you know, there's a PE firm I met that's actively buying SaaS focused on e-commerce brands. Um, so. Yeah, there's a lot of people.

Neil Twa: We're looking for multi-channel companies ourselves, so they have to have at least three, uh, to four legs of revenue within the business platform or otherwise, and they have to have at least five, 10 million in revenues and, and be at least five years old. For our buy box, and we have a PE group that we built as well that we're acquiring now under, it's a Patriot growth capital. They are veteran backed, veteran funded, veteran supported. As we acquire the companies, we'll be hiring veterans. So it's actually kind of more of a mission as a business, if you will, to employ those veterans and give them opportunities. Those who become proficient get their 10,000 hours of training in five years. They have an opportunity to acquire the company. So we have an actual mission behind our support of our products and business acquisitions.

Sean Weisbrot: I remember hearing about that and I thought that was cool. It reminds me of this business in Ho Chi Min City that is, uh, like a fine dining in the dark.

Neil Twa: Okay, fine. Dining in the dark.

Sean Weisbrot: What they do is they have these like high quality, upscale, you know, really fine dining, um, meals, and the whole like dining room is completely pitch black. And all of the servers are blind people. And you enter the room, they make you take away your phone and anything that makes, uh, noise or lights up and you put your hands on the, on your server's shoulders, and they take you upstairs into the dining room, there's not a single light. No, there's nothing. There's, you can't see anything. There's no way to see anything. You can't see your food can anything. Then you have to completely rely on your other senses for the meal.

Neil Twa: That's clever. So you get a, you get a chance to focus on the sensory of taste versus just what you see. Uh, of course then you wouldn't know what you're necessarily eating, so that could also be a problem too, I suppose. I thought this was squid. What is this?

Sean Weisbrot: So they have three menus. One's a vegetarian menu, one's like a Western menu, and one's an Asian menu.

Neil Twa: Right. Okay.

Sean Weisbrot: And so. You don't know what you're getting, but afterwards, when you go downstairs, they will ask you like, what did you think was, you know, because, so basically they, they have, um, multiple courses and each course, it's like a plate that has little cups. And so you get maybe four to six. And it's inside of the cup, and so you can just like drink it. If it's like a little soup or if it's more a solid, you can, you know, you've got a fork or something, you could just pick it out, but you, you can't see it. But they say, okay, your plate's here, your glasses here. They put your hand where everything is so you know where, where you are. And

Neil Twa: that's very cool.

Sean Weisbrot: I, I find it really fascinating and I, every time, so I was living there for four and a half years, so whenever someone came to visit, I made sure I had to take them so that they could have this experience because it really allows you to appreciate what some people experience every day. And so it, it gives these servers an opportunity to do something that's meaningful and interesting for them. Valuable for the business and they can earn, uh, you know, a wage, they can live off of the money that they're earning so they can add value to society. And they have another floor where. Uh, it's, everything is lit, so it's a normal room, but the servers are deaf mute. So the menu teaches you how to sign the dish that you want to order.

Neil Twa: Very cool experiences, little, little innovative twists on the restaurant experience. That's very cool.

Sean Weisbrot: So I love what, and there's a, a mission behind what you're doing when you can help people. There's people that will like only hire. You know mothers, right? You had a kid. Yeah. I'll hire you because I know what's like, so I knew a woman who had, who was a mother and she hired a lot of the people that were working with her were mothers and, and she had a really great business because everybody understood what everyone else was going through.

Neil Twa: Yeah. They had their own mission. That's right. That's very good.

Sean Weisbrot: Were you in the military yourself? Is that why you're involved in it?

Neil Twa: I was, I did not have the honor to serve, no. Um, my father was, he was a two tour Vietnam vet in the Navy. Um, it's been in our family. I had planned to go, uh, to the military. Um, but there was one I. It wasn't in the cards for me. I, uh, I bounced out of the Air Force when they, uh, the F 15 E cockpit is what they were training on, and they put us in there and put the helmet on and it wouldn't close. I'm too tall, so I couldn't close the cockpit. That was the end of that dream, so I went off to college instead.

Sean Weisbrot: How tall are you?

Neil Twa: I'm six four and a half, but the height I have is in my upper waist. So while I could fit in the cockpit. They couldn't close the canopy 'cause all my heights were my waist up, so the helmet and everything on top, they couldn't literally close the canopy. Actually, I had one other experience. I met a podcaster here a year ago. Um, and in, in my 49 years, I've never heard another person with a similar story. His, his was same. He went to go to the Air Force and they bounced him because his legs were too long. So he had the opposite problem is he couldn't fit in the dash because his legs were too long. He was my size, but then, you know, he, they could close it for him, but. His knees were too far, so they're like, sorry, you're out.

Sean Weisbrot: I am colorblind, so I would never be able to do anything.

Neil Twa: Well that, that would be another problem. Yeah. Flying the plane with your head at, at an angle, you know, that's also not, um, what, you know, recommended. So, so I ended up going to college, which was a failback plan. I didn't wanna be in college. I, I was actually gonna gopi, I wanted to go fast. I wanted to be a fire pilot. That's all I planned to do. So I had never applied to go in my, you know, last semester of my senior year. I was fumbling around for scholarships and stuff to just get to school. I had a music, uh, history, uh, since I've been the fourth grade, I was playing trumpet, jazz, classical, that kind of stuff. So I applied for a bunch of music scholarships to see if I could get it anywhere. And a work study plus a scholarship led me to a little liberal arts college out in Iowa, where I got mostly school paid for. And, uh, so I hung out, hung out there for three years. That was my fallback plan. And then I, the internet came online and that was the end of that. 'cause once the internet came, I was like, what am I doing here? I don't wanna be here. They can't teach me anything. It's like we're setting up the first computers in the science lab, you know, and it was just, it was quite a wild time as a, you know, email. And then Windows 95 came online and everything was changing dramatically fast. And I was like, I wanna be a part of this. And they're like, well, we don't have anything. So most of my friends went into the tech side. They went into the systems and hardware and, you know, uh, Microsoft certifications and other things you could get. To actually have any kind of skillset. And then very quickly the business kicked up, of course, um, to using the business side of the internet. And that's where I wanted to go, but I couldn't do it in college. So I jumped out and started programming for a living for a while as a contractor until till the world caught up a little bit. And then the first startup I got involved in was Sprint, PCS, and the mobile division when they were launching the mobile phone.

Sean Weisbrot: I've spoken to a number of people that have been through the 2001 Pebble and. Everyone's stories are fascinating.

Neil Twa: Well, it was a very, you know, crazy time because so much money was flying with so much opportunity that people were just making dumb decisions. You know, and I often, I often look back and go, well, it was a blessing to me. It wasn't necessarily the smartest decision for, you know, them to hire me in as a, as a manager when I was 19. And then by the time I'm 21, I'm managing like five people who are 20 years my age. So I was figuring out how to manage people on the fly. So that was fascinating. But, uh, I fig quickly figured out that it's who you know that gets you in and it's what you know that keeps you there. So I would stay up till like one and two in the morning figuring it out and then I'd go do the job the next day and I just kept doing that. You know, I felt like it was a little bit of fake it till you could make it, but I was quickly learning things that no one else was willing to learn and putting in the time to learn it, uh, so that I could figure out what to do next. And it turned into a great opportunity and eventually we had a very successful. Growth at that business. And, uh, we launched the first, you know, uh, knowledge management powered system in a corporate enterprise within Sprint. Kind of set the industry standard for creating and, uh, organizing knowledge, which became the basis of today's AI systems. And then, uh, I-B-M-I-B-M came up to a project there and said, Hey, you're doing a great job. Why don't you come work for us? So I got hired out of Sprint by IBM.

Sean Weisbrot: What's the most important thing you've learned so far in your life?

Neil Twa: The most important thing I've learned in my life is. Even if you are acting imperfectly, even if you look to some people like you're being foolish, and even if you look to others that you might be crazy for doing things that don't seem rational, uh, as long as your purpose is true and you're continuing to do it for the right reasons, you'll eventually win If tenacity and perseverance continues forward. When you fail, learn what you failed from and keep going as a book says, fail forward, right? I say Fail up, don't fail out. And I've just learned to not take no for an answer. I guess in all that summary, it comes down to everything for me is a K and OW until it's a hell no. And even then there's still ways to work it out.