The #1 Rule in Our House: No Complaining, Only Solutions.

Mark Beneke: Creating a space for people to be able to not only receive the entertainment of being able to listen to somebody else, talk about things that they're interested in, but also be able to learn like little nuggets here and there from whatever it is that, that, uh, that we're talking about. Like, I'm sure plenty of people will listen to this and not give a shit about 90% of what I said, but maybe one person will take something that I said and actually run with it within their company. And that ends up happening with me all the time. Like whenever I listen to podcasts. You use that as almost like motivation to keep you going for a few more days or a few more weeks, kind of tweak something within your company or try it out and so it's, yeah, like you're, you're doing something nice that I personally like.

Sean Weisbrot: All right, so I am here today with Mark and we actually did an episode together for the podcast number 80. We talked about how microdosing LSD had changed his life, and it was a really fascinating story and I did a lot more research about psychedelics after our conversation. I think it's been about eight months since we spoke something like that. A lot has happened. I won't need, I won't talk about it here 'cause the community knows, and, and I've talked to you about being in Europe and, and all of that. So I don't wanna waste everyone's time, including your own. So I'd like to go straight into the questions. There's no need to introduce yourself because they're gonna be forced to watch the podcast episode to hear about you. So why don't we start by you telling people what your business is and how much revenue does it generate per year. And I want you to talk about both the real estate and the uh, car, um, business.

Mark Beneke: Okay. So as far as the, uh, the car business, uh, so my brother and I own a couple car dealerships out here in Fresno, California. We, uh, we focus primarily on in-house financing. So in other words, we deal with the clientele that cannot necessarily get approved, uh, through traditional means of other financing. So we finance them directly through our company and just carry the paper for three, four years. Um, as far as the revenue on that, we probably take in a little over 6 million each, uh, each year. Um, and then as far as the real estate side of things, uh, I got my license last year, but that's, uh, just to, to be able to qualify as a real estate professional. And I do sell houses, uh, from time to time, but we have like a holding company where, um, we are purchasing different assets like, uh, multifamily and. And, uh, single families, you know, small multi-families and just pretty much just trying to build up the portfolio that way. I would say that one takes in not nearly as much as the, the, uh, dealership, but probably somewhere in like the 300,000, uh, range, three, 400,000 range and, uh, over the year. Good thing about the real estate side is it, uh, it allows you to depreciate a lot and so your tax burden gets reduced drastically. So that's, that's always a nice thing when you, uh, when you can save money that way.

Sean Weisbrot: I had actually interviewed a guy before who had a business that was so profitable that the, his lawyer was like, you're gonna owe the government over a quarter million dollars this one year just for your corporate income tax. And he was like, okay, what do I do about it? He's like, buy a building. And so he, he bought a building to write off that, that tax burden, and then it had multiple floors. And so he put one of his companies in one floor and he rented out the other floors. And then one of the floors had like multiple different tiny units for individual people to work out of. And so even when there's a recession or whenever bad things happen, that business, that building is still generated income. Um, and he basically has his own company paying him rent. Personally,

Mark Beneke: it's always, it's always nice though, not only, I'm assuming, I don't know if he purchased it cash or not, but like the beauty of it is getting to, yeah. Okay. So if, uh, there's multiple ways that like you can just increase the, uh, the level that, that, uh, uh, I guess of like the tax advantage that you would get from it, but it's, uh, probably a conversation for another time.

Sean Weisbrot: Sure. So what make, what made you excited for getting into the car dealership? I remember it was your dad's, I think, and you bought him out.

Mark Beneke: Yeah. So. I mean, honestly, I can't say that it was cars itself. 'cause like cars have never really interested me. Like it's, it, yes, they're nice and when you see like fast cars and everything, or like the, the really nice newer shiny ones, like you, you obviously your eyes get real wide, but the moment that you get into 'em, you realize they're the exact same thing is like that Pontiac G six that you saw, you know, like the 2004 Pontiac G six that's sitting around or five. Uh, but that's, that's the point. Like I see cars as transportation. I think the exciting part of it was just the business itself. Like how, how things operated. How my dad had kind of like raised us to have this mentality that, you know, we, we, we eat what we kill, you know? And, and um, which is funny. I'm vegetarian but I use that. But anyway, um. The, the point is that, uh, it, it's just the excitement of having the business and being able to operate it better, uh, and seeing the growth part of everything. Like, I think I would get excited about almost any business as long as I saw how I could improve it and how I could, uh, make it more and more profitable and, and keep growing it. Like that's, that's the part that, that, uh, that really excites me about our, our dealerships.

Sean Weisbrot: So what was your biggest fear in getting involved in this business, knowing that it wasn't something that you were personally passionate about in the beginning?

Mark Beneke: Um, so one thing that you should probably know is, like, I, it's, it's hard for me to, I don't have very many fears. Like, I, like my risk tolerance is through the roof. Like, I, I honestly, I could, sometimes I end up making some stupid decisions just because I feel like, well, I, I can and I will, you know, and so, uh, that can be a little bit dangerous, but like, it's good 'cause I have my brother to be able to. Kind of like reel me back in. But I would argue the biggest fear was probably just knowing, okay, well if we fuck this up, like not only do we fuck up our future, but, um, since the, the payment plan that we had set up with my dad was based off of the company itself, like, well, we fuck up his future as well, so his retirement goes down the toilet. But, um, I don't know. Like I, I was confident that, that we weren't going to, like, I I never really had any thoughts of feeling like I was gonna fail. I felt like it, I'm gonna run into problems, but I, I'm gonna solve them. Like, it's just, it's just how we get through things.

Sean Weisbrot: Was there any ever a time that you regretted making the decision to get into it

Mark Beneke: every day? Dude, every day. It's a lot. It's a lot to handle, like, a lot of work. Uh. And the, the thing is, like, most people don't realize that even though a lot of people view the boss as like, oh, well they, they have it comfy. You know, like they just sit around at the top and they don't do anything. But like, they don't realize that when there's fires, the first person that everyone goes to is the boss. 'cause they don't want to deal with it. And so they go to whoever is handling everything and tell them how do we handle it? And you have to sit there and come up with a solution. And that's usually like the most stressful part about everything. Like it's really, it's not, it, once you get used to it, once you get into the rhythm of everything, like it, it doesn't even feel like you're really doing anything. Like, it does feel pretty easy. But at the same time, like some, there are moments where you'll have those, those things that you just really don't wanna deal with and you know, you have to, and it just put you in this like fucking. Just bubble and they stay wrapped up in your head for a while, and those are the moments where you kind of feel like, damn, like, do I really wanna be involved in this?

Sean Weisbrot: I feel that way quite often about my company as well. And I was actually having that kind of a conversation with one of my investors today. Like, you know, if I were to advise someone who was in my situation, I would give them advice that I personally am not willing to take. Nice. And he is like, he, he's like, look, you have to understand you're not just a CEO, you're also the founder and you're the largest shareholder of your company. So you have three hats, you have three different points of view that you have to look at every situation and before you make a decision. Because the decision that you make with one hat on is maybe not the right decision for the other hat. And so if you can't look at it from all three points of view, then you won't, you, you may not make the best decisions all the time. I was like. Thank you. I hate you, but thank you.

Mark Beneke: Yeah, it's actually very good. And, and at the end of the day too, like that's, that's the other part, like, it's kind of like trusting the decision that you go with too, like that that's something that you really, you can't just make a rash decision about something. Like you really have to put a little bit of thought into it. And sometimes that thought will come to you fairly quickly, you know, but other times you have to mull it over and it's, when you're mulling it over and you're not a hundred percent sure of the decision and you know you have to do something and you make it, you just have to keep like telling yourself like, it's, it's the right choice. And I, and if it's not the right choice, I need to make it the right choice and figure out a way to, to make it happen.

Sean Weisbrot: I can't remember who said it. It may have been Jeff Bezos, something like, there's two kinds of decisions. There's two kinds of doors. There's one door you go through that you may be able to open it again after you go through it and close it behind you. And there's other doors that are really just brick walls. And after you go through that door, there's no way you can go back. So you, and you don't know usually which decision you make is going to have which consequence or which, which result. And that's why you have to be really careful about what you decide on in any given case because you, you either can go back or you can't and you won't know until you've already made that decision.

Mark Beneke: Yeah. That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

Sean Weisbrot: So then what has driven you to keep doing all of this?

Mark Beneke: The challenge, uh, for me it's, it's, honestly, it all just comes down to the challenge and seeing, um, how far I can push myself. Um, I mean, it's the whole reason why I go to the gym or I run, uh, like it, it. Almost every decision that that I make comes down to being able to see how far I can stretch things and, and, um, yeah, like I, I just enjoy being able to see like how, how much I can grow. Um, and one of the other things too is I like being able to provide, uh, for, for people, like, for the people that are close to me, like, I like being able to, to be there and give them the life that they want, you know? And so, um, my, a lot of my employees, like I, I hold a lot of stock when it comes to treating my employees well and making sure that they're taken care of. Um, 'cause Okay. Perfect, perfect way to, to look at it is, um, I'm sure you know, like what a baron is, right? Baron from,

Sean Weisbrot: uh, B-A-R-O-N? Yeah.

Mark Beneke: B-A-R-O-N.

Sean Weisbrot: Okay, so what, just explain it in case there's people that are listening who aren't native English speakers or not Americans.

Mark Beneke: Okay. So, so Baron, uh, is essentially the, like the, the person that held over, uh, a small section of a kingdom. Uh, they had like their little town, you know, within it. And they were the leader within that town, and they would kind of have people come in and work for them and they would provide them housing. They would provide them food as part of their little village. And that's like, the idea of that is, is something that, that I love, like, I love the idea of being able to provide to family, to friends, to, to my employees like that a, a better and better, uh, society within our little community. You know, I, I like that. And seeing how big I can grow that.

Sean Weisbrot: So then. How do you celebrate wins with them or by yourself or

Mark Beneke: So by myself. I, I can't say that I really celebrate wins. Like, I, I, I don't know, maybe it's just because, like we never did growing up, like when we won something, it was just kind of like, you pat yourself on the back and you just keep moving onto the next thing, you know. But, um, as far as like employees, like we, we always make sure to acknowledge them. Like not only verbally, but like a lot of the times we end up giving like bonuses or, or, uh, little things like that they appreciate, like, and we always make sure that they, they know that they're appreciated. Like, um, okay. Little things that we find trivial, but like making sure that we get, uh, pizza for them or a cake on their birthday. Or if they tell us that they were trying to do something, like one of them was, uh, what was it? One of them was. They were training for something I, it was a few years ago, but like, during their training, like we would end up getting them like little gifts or whatever, uh, to motivate, motivate them to keep going through with their training, you know, and, and uh, always just providing them, um, financial assistance in the sense, not like giving them money, but like financial, um, education, you know. And so if they ever come to us about anything, um, about saving or, or investing or anything like that, like we are always, we have an open door policy with them. Uh, if they end up telling us like, Hey, we would like to be able to like strive towards, let's say financial independence, like that's something that we always urge them to, to move forward towards, you know? And like, it's, it's funny 'cause like most people are, are scared that like, well if you teach your employee how to be financially independent, then they're not dependent on you. And Okay, we can look at it a couple different ways. Like number one, yeah, they won't be dependent on you and. They might leave, but the chances are they would have so much respect for you that they would most likely stay unless you were honestly hindering them to the point where they saw that there was better opportunity somewhere else. In which case, you should probably be rethinking the way that you're structuring things for them. 'cause if you have somebody that's able to accomplish something like that, like you have somebody that's actually worth everyone's time. Uh, but the second part is looking at it in a slightly more negative, uh, point of view. You can give people knowledge, but knowledge without implementation is just what entertainment. Right? And maybe 1% of the population acts on all the knowledge that floods them every single day. Like all of us know how to be in shape. All of us know how to make money. All of us know how to do all of these things. But there's only a select few people that actually. Implement that stuff and take advantage of what comes their way. So

Sean Weisbrot: yeah, I like that you're willing to tell them how they can improve themselves like that. I, for the longest time was paying my employees in, uh, Bitcoin and Ethereum, because that's just how we had things structured. And you know, they were getting Ethereum at like $200 a coin. I dunno if you follow crypto, but at the, at Ethereum's height, it was worth almost 6,000, almost $5,000. And so, like I had been paying them from the lowest part to the highest part all in, in Ethereum. And I was like, I don't care what you do, just. Keep 5% of your salary as Ethereum or 10%, just, just trust me. Just trust me. And one guy, like, I think he made several years salary and like one year just off of holding like that tiny little portion. He was like, holy shit. Thank you, Sean.

Mark Beneke: Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. I, uh, I can't imagine they're doing too well right now with it, but, but neither is anybody else.

Sean Weisbrot: Well, I never told them, I never told them to sell, so that's on them all. I, all I said was, here, I've got this Ethereum for you. That's your salary. Do what you want with it, but like, just hold some of it. But I, I never told them what to do after that. Um, so then how do you handle losses?

Mark Beneke: Uh, in a very similar way to how we handle wins? Uh, as far as like within our family, like. I don't ever really dwell on them like I might, it, it's funny 'cause we have, my wife and I have this policy where you're allowed to vent about something as long as through the venting you are actually trying to find a solution. If it's complaining just to complain, it's not allowed in the house. Uh, but if you're, if you are talking about it, in order to be able to bounce ideas back and forth to find a solution to whatever the problem might be, it's allowed. And so it's kind of, uh, created this good dynamic because if my wife comes, my wife is a teacher, if she comes home and she's had a bad day, you know, instead of sitting there and complaining about like one of her kids or one of her fellow teachers or whatever, um, she tells me this is what happened. And then she tries to figure out like, okay, well. What could I try tomorrow to make sure that it doesn't happen again? You know? And so that's kind of how we deal with, with losses. Like if we've had a pretty big loss at the company or anything like that. Like, okay, let me give you this example this morning, um, I found out that one of the, the, uh, properties that I had purchased it, we're doing a pretty big rehab on it right now. Uh, and somebody broke in last night and ended up like stealing a bunch of the shit in there. Uh, lots of our materials, and I know it's gonna be a pretty hefty cost, but at the end of the day, like, you know, the, the contractor called me, you could tell that he was like very scared to tell me and he ended up telling me like, Hey, this is what happened. And I was like, okay, that's, that's fine. Like, it's, it's part of doing business. Like it's, if, if this is not something that I've put into the budget, like we all know that losses are gonna happen at one moment or another and we can't ever expect when it's gonna happen. We just know it will happen. And so it's just something that you should just plan for like. It might happen three years down the road, or it might happen next month or in a couple of days, but it should be part of, let's say, like your budget, or it should be part of your, your mental, uh, processing. You know, like it's, it's okay to have losses and it's just how I said earlier, it's moving on and figuring out how to solve the problem and make sure that it doesn't happen again, or if it does happen again, that you are better prepared so that you minimize that loss as much as possible. Now, as far as, sorry. No, as far as the employees, uh, I, I don't reprimand. Uh, it like, unless it's like flat out their fault, like it was them not paying attention or anything like that. Like, but I don't believe in somebody, like unless you're being intentional or just completely. I don't know, just absent-minded about it. I don't believe in reprimanding people in the sense that, like, beating them down or anything. I believe in having a conversation with someone, making them aware of what the error was, and then making sure that they're aware of, of, uh, of their, not just us but them and making sure that they just don't do it again. You know?

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. I was gonna say, I love how you make sure that if anyone's complaining that, you know, the goal is to find a solution. 'cause I think it's so easy to just complain and I, I've definitely been known to complain at times. I think my ex, my ex-wife can, can vouch for that. Um, so, so yeah, that's good to do that. And I'm sure it's not to do. Um, so I'm curious then, what has been one of the hardest decisions you've had to make?

Mark Beneke: Ooh, uh, one of the hardest decisions we've had to make. I don't know. That's a, it's a tough question. I feel like. Almost every decision is, is hard to make. But I don't know. I I would say it, it, most of them come down to making a choice of like firing somebody. Like it's never, 'cause you always have it in the back of your head, uh, or at least I do. Like, is it, is it my fault that this person did not work well for the company? You know, and it could I retrain them? Could I attempt to retrain them, uh, to be able to kinda like adhere to what we need out of them. Uh, so I would say like anytime that you have to, to fire anybody and you, you are not a hundred percent sure if it's your fault or if it's actually them. Like they're just not a right fit for the company. And I would say most of the time, no, I would say all of the time it is our fault at, at the end of the day because we hired them and. If we would've done a good enough interview, we would've been able to find the, the red flags that would've let us know, Hey, this person will not be a right fit. Or if we weren't a hundred percent sure and we just thought this person seems like a right fit, but I'm not quite there. Okay, well maybe we should have given them like a trial period, like where we offered them like, Hey, could you come on board for a week or two and just to see if you are gonna enjoy working with us and we're gonna enjoy working with you. We'll pay you X amount. And then after that, like, we'll, we'll be able to both make our decisions. You know, like something like that. Leader's always things that we can do to make sure, uh, and yeah, like most of the times that we've had to, to fire people, I would say, came down to us either not spotting it quickly enough or us uh, not doing a good enough job to, to train them the way that we needed somebody to operate within our company.

Sean Weisbrot: There have been a few people that I hired for nerve that I had to let go. And I tried really hard to give them the benefit of the doubt for way too long until eventually their existence was hurting the business on a daily basis. And I was like, I, I can't let this happen. But I also, I tried really hard and yeah, it, it sucked and it was, the firing wasn't done in the best of ways and it shocked the rest of the team for both instances. And yeah, it could have been handled a lot better for sure. Um, but it is what it is and we're a lot better for them not being around. And I, yes, I think we could have possibly discovered those red flags, but I, I pride myself in feeling like I can read people really well and they felt like really good fits. They started off quite strong and then after like a month or so, they started to really show some flags and we're like, well, you know, is this a personality thing or is this a cultural fit issue? And eventually it was quite clear that it was a personality thing. And then like a few months later after we knew we tried everything to like get through to them, like it just wasn't gonna happen. And we're like, okay, we've just gotta let you go. Um, and that, that caused problems that rippled and it's still rippling now. We're still dealing with that crap. But, um, so then I'm curious, how do you anticipate problems in your business?

Mark Beneke: Um, okay, so a problem that we're having right now, um, one of our salespeople been with us for a couple years already. I can tell you like I absolutely love this salesperson. Like it's somebody that I am a hundred percent sure. Is gonna be sticking with me, whether it's in the car business or any other business that, that we open up. Like there's somebody that's gonna be sticking with us for, for life, you know? And, um, she was going through some relationship issues at her house and I could tell from months ago that she was having these problems. And I, I think last time during the interview I had mentioned to you that like, I, I have regular sit downs with our, our employees. Just to ask them like, Hey, how's your life going? Like, how are you feeling? Just to find out a little bit more about them, just to help them feel at ease and comfortable talking with me about everything going on and so out. Well, I'll say out of the blue, she, she came and didn't really request, but ended up stating that she wanted to go to Florida for two months. And right now we've been having a pretty hard time, like actually finding, uh, a, an additional salesperson. And we've been having a really hard time finding a collector. I'm sure. Like you might have been having a hard time finding replacements as well for everything. But, uh, I don't know how it is for, for, uh, the rest of the world or for us, it's a shit show. But, um, yeah, so we're a little bit understaffed and she knows this, and so she placed it almost as something that like, I've already made my decision and I'm gonna go. And the worst part is like, I can't, even though initially like it shocked me, I can't really say that I was that surprised. Like I could see that coming for some time. And I would say, because I sit down with everybody and I talk to them, I can't expect, let's say like the outside things. Like if somebody comes and sues us, I can't. I don't know when that'll happen. Sometimes it's just random. Other times, yeah, you, you could, you know when that's coming just 'cause the person came straight up to you and told you, I'm gonna fucking sue you. But, but other times like it's just out of random. The customer doesn't even call you or talk to you or try to solve a problem with you. It's just they decide to go like the complete opposite route without communication. Uh, but as far as like what I do have some control over, that's just within my organization and that comes down to just communicating with everybody as much as possible and making sure that they feel comfortable bringing problems to me so that I can talk to them to figure out how, how we can solve everything. And I try to get them to feel like, I try to get them in the habit of solving their own problems as well, so that we kind of have less problems. Brought to us in the sense that like, we have to solve them. Now it's them feeling like, okay, well how can I figure this out instead of, let me take it to Mark so that he could figure it out and then I'll just go back and just keep doing what I was doing, you know? Um, so I, I don't know if that like fully answers the question, but it, I just feel like communication with within my per, like my, my people is, is what really helps me be able to figure out like how, uh, like what fires might come in, what direction, you know.

Sean Weisbrot: Let's approach this from another angle, since you've talked about the people side. Specifically, how do you discover bottlenecks in the business? And this doesn't have to be people, this could be the market's about to change, or you are pre preventing the company from growing, things like that. How, how do you anticipate or how do you discover that?

Mark Beneke: So it's an interesting, um. It's interesting because, uh, for a few years now, I, I hope my brother doesn't listen to this, but, but I've personally felt like the bottleneck within our company has actually been my brother, because he is extremely conservative in everything that he does, and he has hit a moment where, because of the type of business that we're in, a lot of the time, we do have to deal with some, quite a bit of shit. Like customers come in and most of the time the customers that come in, they don't come to reason with you. They come to scream, threaten, you know, like just throw shit. Like, and so it, it, it gets to you. And for me, like I've never had an issue with it. Maybe just 'cause I'm Confrontative or maybe just 'cause I just don't care. But my brother, you can tell that he's gotten a little bit disillusioned with everything. And so I. I feel like he has actually been the, the bottleneck within our, in our company. Um, now what I ended up doing a few years ago was I ended up writing him a letter pointing out like all of the, the, the issues that were, that we were running into and how we could solve them as well. And it's funny 'cause I had had like the same conversation verbally with him and every time that we had the conversation verbally, we would just end up getting into to arguments and fights and everything. And, and so I wrote him this letter and I was very supportive of everything, but I just showed him like, Hey, this is how you are preventing this company from growing. And for some reason it like clicked in his head and we started kind of like finding ways for us to be able to pull ourselves out of the business and allow somebody else to, to run it while we figured out more of like the ways that we could grow it. Um, it actually has worked for. Like, let's say the few, actually now a year now that, that, uh, that we tried it, but the only issue that we ran into is a few months ago, the person that we had hired ended up breaking his neck. So we actually had to come in and, and, uh, kind of like cover his position until he's able to, well, hopefully fully heal and come back to, to his post, you know? But, um, so it, that's as far as like the, the bottlenecks in that sense, like I would say that's our biggest one in, for me, I would say my, I would say my issue is that I am not the type of person that, how do I phrase this? Like, I'm really good at coming up with ideas and getting people to act on them. I am horrible at keeping them acting on them. And so I, I mean, I, the only way that I can solve that problem is by making sure that I have somebody else around that is good at that. And I think that's, that's really the only way that you can make sure that you, you don't bottleneck yourself. Uh, you, you have to make sure that you have like all of the right people in place that maybe are better than you at what you, what you think that you're good at, you know? And a lot of the time, like it's just finding, um, finding the right person to cover the, the role that is preventing you from, from growing. Let's say like a good example is like, uh, all the people that feel like they need to do all of the bookkeeping or keep track of all of the accounting and, and everything like. It, it's, it's really important stuff. Like I, I, there's no way that you can get around it, but you can also hire somebody and just oversee their numbers instead of you actually having to go line by line to make sure that they're doing everything correctly or everything is getting done. Like, it's, it's, uh, and just things like that, like the more people that you can actually bring on board to cover certain areas, the more it allows other departments to be able to have the freedom to, to continue working themselves. And I think that's probably something that we're still kind of struggling with, uh, because we found like little, the, the biggest problem we're dealing with right now is just the, the, um, uh, lack of proper, not hires, but like, we're just understaffed in the sense that like, in order for us to be able to continue growing, we, we need more personnel. And as far as like the market shifts, you can usually tell pretty early on, uh, by just keeping data and like seeing. How things are trending. You know, like if one month you see something kind of like dip down, okay, there's nothing there. But if after three months you're starting to notice, okay, things are starting to come down a little bit or things are starting to go up, instead of just sitting there and feeling like, oh, well fuck, it's just the market that's happening. Like sometimes the most of the time there are specific things that you can do to make sure that you turn the company around, you know? And so it could be looking at your marketing and making sure that your marketing is actually in order, or making sure that your salespeople are trained, uh, correctly to be able to address those things. Or like, for example, we keep, uh, a log of all of the applications that ca came in and we try to track, or not try, but we track all of the down payments that have come in at all of the, the types of cars that the people are requesting. And we make sure to, to take a look at them. Like we, we run the report and make sure to take a look at like what we were dealing with over the month. See, okay, well, do we need to adjust our underwriting a little bit? Like, have we been too loose? Did we maybe like, have a bunch of repossessions within the first two, three weeks of us selling the car because the people didn't come back with the down payment. And then we start looking at the, the analyzing, the underwriting that was done on them. You know? And so we're, we're proactively trying to make sure that we're not making errors that are gonna make a long-term impact on the, on the company. And also proactively trying to figure out, okay, well how, how can we capitalize on, on, uh, like, let's say a positive market shift? And so, uh, just being able to track everything, like the more data that you can have. I mean, and that, that comes down to the, the thing that I said before. Like, you can have knowledge, all the knowledge in the world, but if you don't look at the knowledge, if you don't understand and you don't act on the knowledge, then it's worthless. And the same thing happens with data. You could collect as much fucking data as you want, but if you don't analyze the data and. Try to come to a conclusion or also try to tweak things here and there. Like not reconstruct everything but just minor tweaks. Then you're just sitting around waiting for the market to swallow you up. So

Sean Weisbrot: whoever is a first time founder often doesn't know what they don't know. The things you just said are very wise and obviously you're very experienced with your company, um, through your experiences, but how did you come to learn that you needed to do all of those things in order to keep the company running and growing?

Mark Beneke: Um, it's interesting 'cause my brother is more of the data guy. Um, so I view things more in like the creative sense. So my brother went to school for, for business and so for him it's. Get as much data as possible, you know, and for me it's, it comes down to, that's why I talk about people so much, because I believe in relationships more than I believe in full on data. And while data is very, very useful, um, I kind of feel like the data is only there to help you strengthen the relationships that you actually make. And, and that could be relationships within your employees or with your customers. So it's always about finding ways to, to make things better. So for me personally, like, I don't know, I would, I would argue that like we just, we grew up with that mentality. And I would say my parents, like my, we're, we've always been in a business, like we have never, the only time that my parents actually worked for somebody else was when we first came to the United States and, you know, they were working at a. I don't know, like one of the fucking warehouses or something, you know? And, and, uh, and then when my dad was selling cars and my mom was a CNA and that lasted for maybe five years or something. And then after that we ended up opening up the, the company and we went right back into just owning our own business. And so I would say like, just watching them throughout my entire life is really what helped us be able to see like, the things that were working and weren't working. Even though my dad, like, he did not track anything. Like, it was, it was kind of funny, like looking back at the way that he started the business and the way that he ran it for the years that he did, like, it was fucking archaic dude. Like, he was doing everything by paper. Like everything was super slow. He kept track of like all of the accounts that, that, uh, people were, you know, like if people owed on and like, he would just write everything down every time and like. I don't know. It was, it was, uh, very, very archaic and to the point where like, it was so obvious to us that there was never a way that we would be able to scale that, that type of business, you know? And so, uh, once, once we came along, like it, it was, it was something that we saw as just absolutely necessary. Like, um, so I don't know, did I answer the question? I answered it on my brother's sense. I don't know if I answered it for myself.

Sean Weisbrot: Ah, it's fine. I, it's, you did a good job. Um, I'm curious through all of this, how have you had to change yourself in order, in order to allow your company to continue to grow?

Mark Beneke: Okay, so couple of ways. I mentioned earlier, I am a huge risk taker. Uh, my, my risk tolerance is, is through the roof. I really like, don't feel any kind of losses like. I've lost a shit ton of money and it like, doesn't affect me. And it's kind of, I don't know, it, it's a bit of a blessing, but at the same time, like it can be scary for anyone else looking in because obviously like I'm willing to just risk it all. Um, but it has forced me to be able to find a good middle ground to be able to accommodate, let's say, like my brother, uh, my wife, my dad, like everybody who's close to me. So they understand that I'll always try to push us in a more risky direction. But, um, I, but I also want them to still be comfortable being on board. And so I've now realized that my limit is more of their, their limit and pushing a little past their limit, you know? Um, and so having to adapt to, to other people. Uh, in that sense also, I have been forced to. Learn a lot about the psychology of how people tick and you know, what drives them. And making sure that I pay attention to what they're saying. And that's, that's one of the, one of the things that I would say has helped me the most is being able to listen to people. And I feel like listening is something that is not taught to, to anybody. And it it, you being in a, in a podcast like, or having a podcast that is, I feel like that's a beautiful way to learn to listen because you really have to pay attention to somebody's words and be able to pick out like what their actual message is. And I would say 99% of the population doesn't do that. Like we hear people. Yeah. Like we hear what they're saying, but we don't give a fuck about what they're actually telling us. And most of the time we just care about what we're gonna end up saying next. You know? And, and, uh, once you learn how to, how to. Like fully listen and understand somebody else's point of view. You don't have to feel what they're feeling. You don't have to like, let's say emotionally empathize with them, but you can, let's say tactically empathize with them. And I think people care about that more than they do you feeling their emotions, they care more that you understand their point of view, that you understand their place more than anything else. And that has been one of the things that, that has definitely helped me with not only like dealing with tough customer issues, uh, but dealing with my salespeople, um, negotiations, buying properties, uh, dealing with like random people, building like the relationships within my life. Like I forcing yourself to really put yourself in uncomfortable scenarios where you. You know, you're gonna end up failing and it's fine. You know, and, and, um, I feel like all of those are things that I've like really, really honed in on and, and focused on to, and they've helped improve the way that I operate the business. And, and I say I, but like my brother, dude, like, he, honestly, I feel like he is the, the glue that has kept everything together. I am just, I'm the face of the company and he's literally like the fucking brains of the operation. He's, yeah, he's, he is somebody that I have much respect for. Even though we clash all the time,

Sean Weisbrot: everything you've said so far, I just keep hearing myself in you. Like, I just feel like we're, we're so similar in so many ways. The way this, the way you see your brother, the is the way I see my partner, my COO. Where he's the data person. He's the person that I, I rely on to keep the company going. Um, and like the conser, you know, he's very conservative where I'm very risky. And so like, there, there's a lot of these parallels. I see. It's, it's quite funny. Um, you, you were talking about people don't, um, people aren't listening to what you're saying. They're just waiting to say what they wanna say next. And I, I hate to harp on my ex-wife, but she used to say that about me. And I, I, I feel like after our divorce, I really started to focus on like trying to listen more to people and try to make sure that it doesn't feel to them that I'm actually doing that, that I am actually listening and processing and appreciating their point of view. And trying to, in general, just judge people less and try to understand their point of view because it's freaking hard. I. It's hard to appreciate when someone sees the world differently than you. And I think that's one of the problems that America has right now is that if you don't believe what I believe, then you're a piece of shit, basically. And I won't get into the side that I'm on because there is no way to nap you on a side, but like it's freaking hard. And I think, yeah, it's, it's quite important to do that. So that, that's something I've been focused on as well, especially as I, I just turned 36 actually a few weeks ago, and as I'm approaching my forties, thank you. As I'm approaching my forties now, closer to 40 than 30, uh, I am, I'm seeing like, shit, I don't actually, like, I thought I understood people, but there's like so many more layers to people that you don't really understand until you, yourself are willing to go. Actually, I've fucked up a lot. Like, let me, let me take a step back here and let me. Let me try to focus on people more like other people more than myself, and I think the divorce really helped with that.

Mark Beneke: Yeah. Well I, yeah, traumatic experiences are always gonna force us to, I mean, maybe not at first. At first we'll probably be very bitter about everything, but I mean, afterwards it'll force us to self-reflect and yeah, I think, I think just being self-aware is one of those things that man, it like it's, it puts you strides above anybody else and most people just don't. They don't wanna reflect on, on who they are and how they could have messed up. They just don't wanna take responsibility.

Sean Weisbrot: So then what is your current self-care routine?

Mark Beneke: Self-care shit like, uh, putting on lotion and stuff like that.

Sean Weisbrot: If you wanna talk about putting on lotion, I'm not gonna stop you.

Mark Beneke: No self-care. Um, well, my wife and I, I have like an internal clock where I like wake up almost at the same time every single day. Uh, so I have to make sure that I go to bed early. I usually go to bed anytime from like 7 30, 8 o'clock. Uh, wake up anywhere from three to four. Uh, immediately we end up going to the gym, stay at the gym for probably, I don't know, anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes. If we're going past 40 minutes, we're talking too much. Uh, that happens every day. We come back. Hmm. Oh, uh, self-care, definitely. I play at least half an hour of video games every day. You know, I have to make sure to, to, uh, get that outta the way it clears my head space. Um,

Sean Weisbrot: if you're not using vr, you should have a VR headset.

Mark Beneke: I do not have vr. No. I, uh, I put It will change your freaking world. I'll have to look into it. Right now I've been playing a lot of like Apex legends, so I don't even know if they have that on vr. I don't think they do.

Sean Weisbrot: No. But whatever they have, it's probably a lot better than Apex Legends because you, you're not in Apex Legends. You are playing Apex Legends. If you're playing vr, you're in the game and it's just, it's totally different. Like even just the, the mini golf game. There's, there's flying games where you're in a plane and you get to go through obstacles and like shoot down Nazi planes and like, just every, every freaking game that, that I've seen so far, the rhythm games, they're all so good. You know, I also grew up playing video games and I loved the hand-eye coordination that went through, went with it, but like, you know, 2D you know, platform scrollers, you know, side scrollers, like sure, they're great. Okay, fine. Like the 3D games are a little bit better. But like, VR doesn't even, like you, you can't even compare. These games are like garbage. VR has a long way to go, but VR challenges your brain in a really cool way, and it's really good for team engagement. Although I don't, I, I met this guy who has a remote team, and what he does is every person he hires, he buys them a VR headset with company money. And so they're like, oh, I'm feeling stressed now. You wanna go play some mini golf? Yeah, no problem. And they go and they play mini golf together.

Mark Beneke: That's fucking cool. That is super cool. It's not a bad idea. I'll, uh, I'll probably right after this, I'll probably end up looking up some VR headsets and trying to see if I can get one.

Sean Weisbrot: Quest two is the most notable one and then, or the Medi Me Quest two. And then I think they're like coming out with another one later this year. But anyways, I'm sorry. I want you to go back to the self-care routine. I didn't want just interrupt.

Mark Beneke: What do we consider part of healthcare? Uh, uh, self-care? Like what, what would you include in there?

Sean Weisbrot: How do you stay healthy? Right? Do you meditate? Do you exercise? Do you, you know, not watch porn? Like what, what do you do that keeps you in, in tip, tip, chop shape?

Mark Beneke: I've been trying to get back into meditation a little bit more. Uh, for some reason I've been finding it, and I think I mentioned this last time too, that like for some reason I could not get my head around it. Like I. I didn't feel stress or anything. And so like for some reason I was kind of allowing it and like I've, I do it occasionally, but I find myself more often than not, like, skipping over it and feeling like I don't need it, even though when I do it, I feel really great, but it's, it has not been part of my, my routine. Um, I would say reading is another part that like, I, every night before we go to bed, like I, I always make sure to, to read a little bit, like whether it's for five minutes, 10 minutes, like I, I just feel like it allowing somebody else's thoughts to kind of come into mind whether I agree with them or not is always a good thing. Oh, we watch a lot of shows and yes, I, I do consider that to be part of my, my, uh, self-care routine. Just like video games. Like it's, it's a way to kind of, uh, escape and I dunno, it gives my wife and I like something interesting to talk about. Just 'cause a lot of the shows that we watch, like what we found is sometimes like she ends up really enjoying 'em and I just kind of feel like, yeah, they were, they were okay. And like other times like. I'm fucking obsessed with them. And she's like, yeah, they were, I don't know, they kind of sucked, you know? So, uh, you put any space show in front of me and I'm gonna be like a fucking obsessed, you know? But, um, but yeah, just like, I would say that's, that's about it. Like, that's our, our schedule. Um, and then throughout the day, like I, I usually just, I try to keep myself working on like scheduling out like my blocks of time that I know I'm going to be working on something productive. And then when my leisure time is, you know, and I try to just be intentional about the time that I'm providing myself, so that way nothing just gets left in, in the, the wind, you know? Um, so for example, like usually every morning I, after we come back from working out. I take a shower and then afterwards I start, let's say, editing a video or, um, I work on some of like, the paperwork for the company, you know, or I make sure to send out like all the things that need to be sent out to clients or to like other agents or, you know, I just try to make sure that I like, block out the time so I know exactly when something needs to be taken care of. Uh, or when I'm gonna be filming a video and posting it up on, on YouTube or whatever. Like do doing, doing all of those things. Like all, they all play a part in, I guess like the self-care because I feel like if I did, I was not intentional, I would feel very disorganized. And while I can work in disorganization, like I feel like knowing what is there and being able to complete it always makes you feel like a little bit more put together.

Sean Weisbrot: I totally get that. I have a to-do list that I manage every I, I. Kind of like prime it every night before I go to sleep. So I know that I can like sleep comfortably. Like I don't have to worry. Like I'm not gonna wake up in the night going, oh crap, I forgot this thing. Like, I need to edit to the list. Right? So I just like, whatever, whatever comes before I go to sleep, that's what I'm gonna do. And then throughout the day, I try to hit them in order from like, how they're listed, even if it's not the most difficult thing. Like it might be the easiest thing, like gimme a quick win in the morning so I can feel good. But, um, so I'm actually curious, when do you decide to do the most difficult thing of that day? Is it in the morning, is it in the afternoon? Is it in the evening?

Mark Beneke: Typically, in, in the first thing, like I, I like knocking out the most challenging things at first and then working my way down on the things that I find more and more trivial. So yeah, usually the, the harder they are, the further up they, they tend to be.

Sean Weisbrot: Okay. Fair enough. So then what's the first, what's your first thought in the day? And it can't be, I need to pee or anything like that.

Mark Beneke: First thought throughout the day. I would say that it, it's different every single day. But I mean, I, I, I know if, if, if you were to ask this to my brother, even though he won't admit it, the first thought that would be going through his head is, I need to check my bank account. He fucking does that every single day. But for me, I don't, I don't know, man. Like, I, I guess it's just kind of random. Like sometimes I'll think about, like, sometimes I'll wake up and I will think about, oh shit, like I have a good idea for the next video, or I have a good idea for like a new, um, like ad for the dealership, or, you know, but other times it could just be, damn, I'm tired, kind of want to go back to bed. But I'm, I'm, I know I won't be able to, like, I don't, I don't have like a, a fixed thing that I think about every single day. I think it's just, um, it. Usually, like the inspiration just comes in the, in the morning and just kind of like travels through it. And I think just the fact that I have the routine set up allows me to be able to, uh, not go in the wayside and keep myself like on track with everything I know I need to do.

Sean Weisbrot: So then what's the last thought you have before going to sleep?

Mark Beneke: I don't know. Do, do people normally have like certain things that they, they, uh, think about like when they wake up and they go to bed?

Sean Weisbrot: I mean, I, I don't know. That's why I ask these questions. Like, for me, when I wake up in the morning, I check all of my apps and emails. I just wanna get it out of the way to be like, what's going on in the world? What, what? Do I need to know before I start my day? Like, for example, I, I woke up the other day last week and I found out that like, while I was sleeping, Roe versus Wade was overturned. And I was like, well, that just fucked my day. Like, it doesn't personally affect me, but I know a lot of people that it is going to affect and now I need to go contact them and see if they're okay and like, you know, encourage them to move to Europe where abortion is still legal. Um, you know, and, uh, the last thought for me going to sleep is probably something like, I hope the next day is good. I hope, you know, it's, I, I know there's gonna be problems, but I just hope there aren't too many so that I can actually focus on getting the shit done that I need to do,

Mark Beneke: I guess. Okay. So with that, I, I don't really look at like the news at all. I, I don't ever follow it like. It's kind of interesting. I a lot of like, uh, my brother, the news I, I get from my brother because he checks it quite frequently. Uh, and so he brings up like any like, really big issues, uh, to us. But for the most part, like I stay away from it. But I would say, okay, a good thought that goes through my head before I go to bed is gonna be whatever, whatever I just read about, uh, in the book that I'm reading or whatever I just watched. Um, so it could be different every, every single night. Like right now I'm reading a, like a real estate book and so probably for the next like couple weeks, every thought that goes into my head before I go to bed is gonna be real estate related. Um, next, a couple weeks after that, it'll probably be some kind of sci-fi book that I pick up and it'll be a sci-fi thought before I go to bed. But yeah, something like that.

Sean Weisbrot: All right, so. What's the most important thing that you've learned in life?

Mark Beneke: Learning to listen and understand people, um, because it, and it goes back to what I said at the beginning, like, if you learn and listen, if you learn to listen and understand people, um, you learn to solve any problem that comes your way. And it doesn't necessarily have to be their problem that you're solving. It could be your own problem. But, uh, let's say, like with my wife, like a lot of the time I had mentioned last time, like I have, uh, a very hard time like being able to fully empathize with, with, uh, people in the sense that like, I don't have, like, it, it's hard for me to emotionally empathize with anybody, but I, I feel like because I've taught myself to tactically empathize and understand someone, I am able to connect the dots to like really put myself in their shoes and. Either help them with whatever they're going through or help myself with being able to, to understand them in, in which turn, like I would say, yeah, it helps them too, because they feel understood. Um, and I feel like if, if you learn to maneuver around people, you can solve nearly every problem that you'll have relationally, relationally with anybody. Um, like my wife, whenever we get into arguments, like prior to my wife, I can tell you I, I was right. I was always right. That's just how it went. I, we were doing whatever the fuck I wanted to do. Like nobody else was gonna be changing that. That's just how it was. And, you know, nobody else was gonna make a decision. And so I'm sure you can probably figure out like why those relationships didn't work. But, but, uh, but with my wife now, like I, I can comfortably tell you like, I have never told her that she's wrong. I've never, I. I don't even think that I've ever told her that I was wrong. I just, I just connect the dots for her. Like every single time that we may have some kind of discussion that like maybe she disagreed with something or I disagree with something. I try to make it be about me understanding why she feels the way that she is feeling. And sometimes it takes me, you know, two minutes to just connect the dots. Other times it could take me an hour, I don't know. But as long as you give me the processing time to be able to figure out like the way that she is feeling and understand what led her to feel that way. I, we don't have arguments, like we don't sit around bickering at each other over shit. Like it's, it's just really me reciting back to her like, Hey, this is, this is what I feel you could be going through and these are the reasons why I feel that way. If I'm wrong, please let me know. And usually it's right. And if it's not right, then she kind of lets me know, like, no, it was actually because of this. And then just showing her that I have made the attempt to kind of like get on her side and understand it allows me to be able to kind of like, avoid any kind of, uh, conflict or confrontation that way, you know? And so that's, uh, and that's really useful when it comes to dealing with employees and dealing with, with, uh, with clients, uh, dealing with other business owners, vendors, anybody, like if you show them that it's not just all about you and what you can win. You end up winning more. Like that's what people care about. They just, they want to feel like they have somebody on their side and somebody understands them.

Sean Weisbrot: Maybe I'll bring you back another day when I've got this community larger so that you can teach them this hard skill of how to improve the way that they, that you empathize Coming from someone who, who admittedly struggles with it. I think that's really important. I think a lot of people do struggle with empathy and if they see someone like you who struggles with it but has found a way through, I think that would be really cool for them.

Mark Beneke: Yeah. Yeah. That'd be, uh, that'd be awesome. Whenever, whenever that comes along, I'm, I'm happy to, to come on board and do it again.

Sean Weisbrot: When you were just starting out with the company, what was your safe number? What or what was your like fuck you number, the number that you wanted to make when you said, I'm done. I'm gonna quit. I'm just gonna live the rest of my life and I'm gonna be retired.

Mark Beneke: That is, uh, damn. And it's funny, like initially it was, well if. If we make it to, if the company makes it to like, I dunno. 'cause right now we have roughly like a, I don't know, like a, a little over a $5 million portfolio, you know, and that portfolio just, it keeps growing and growing and like just, uh, grows itself like on its own. Uh, obviously like with the systems that we put into place. But, but at first, like, it was just, well whenever we hit the million dollar mark, you know, like we just thought, well shit. Like, we'll, we'll be good at that moment, you know? And then once you got close to the million dollar mark, you started realizing like, that's nothing. And then you got to 2 million and you realize that's nothing. And then you got to 5 million and you realize that's nothing. And so it's just like, I don't know. It, it, um, right now it's actually gotten to the point where my wife and I, it's funny, like we make more than enough to feel totally comfortable and we're not like fucking, I. Super rich to the point where like, we could just go around blowing money, but like, we live comfortably. We, but we still are extremely frugal. Like, I talk about this all the time in like the YouTube channel, like we live on about $35,000 a year. Like, even though we make way more than that, like that's, that's really all we spend. Like, that's our mortgage, that's our food, that's our entertainment, that's taking our trips. Uh, the puppies, like we got three dogs that we take care of. Like it's everything. And we kind of make a game out of like, well, how little can we actually spend? You know? And, and, uh, it, it almost makes it a little bit more fun because we're not making it about let's make money just so that we can spend money. It's more about, like, for me it's a game just to see how, how big we can grow things. For her, it's more of like, oh, I just, to the point where I feel like totally comfortable and I feel, I, I think like she's still in the mindset of I wanna get to the point where I never have to worry about money again, but. I've gotten to the point where I realize, well, no, once you get to that point, then you worry about more money. And so it's, it's, it's never like, it never stops. And so, um, at this moment I, I've kind of given up on the illusion of there being this fuck you money. I, I don't think that it exists. I think, I think it just comes down to like you making a number that, that, uh, that allows you to live the lifestyle that you want. And clearly for me, it's like if I make $50,000, like I, I can live pretty fucking comfortably, but you know, I'm, there's no reason to to stop there. So

Sean Weisbrot: there was some study that was done that showed $70,000 a year is like this magical number where beyond that, like the amount of happiness you gain for every extra thousand dollars you earn doesn't really go up. Although, I don't know, I don't remember exactly when the study was done. And I can tell you if you're only making $70,000 a year in America, you are not happy. You, you are struggling. I, I think that number needs to be like $200,000 a year right now. It's just because of inflation. Just ridiculous the way the whole thing is going.

Mark Beneke: I mean, if you're living in like the Midwest and like the, the rural areas of the Midwest, like yeah, maybe $70,000 might be good, but living fucking LA with $70,000 and you're not going anywhere.

Sean Weisbrot: No, I mean there's people working for Google and, and Apple and Facebook. They're living in vans making 200,000 a year. 'cause they're like, we just couldn't afford to live in any of those places like that. That just blew my mind. Um, so the, the last question is, what advice do you have for other entrepreneurs? I know you've talked about these other, these kind of things, but, uh, if you could just sum it up.

Mark Beneke: I would say, uh, okay. So definitely learn to understand people, uh, learn to listen. But like also the biggest thing is just learn to lose. Like, I don't think people realize how much failure and how much loss you, you take on. On a daily basis. Like it's not just massive wins all the time. Like people focus on, you know, like somebody making, okay, like the business bringing in $6 million a year. Like, okay, yeah, it's easy to focus on that, but like, we still keep losses happening every single day. Losses in the sense of like, you know, maybe unhappy customers or salespeople that quit or like turnover, things like that. Like all of those things are losses that you, you take on. And if you don't learn to, to solve those problems and to like really accept the losses and kind of like move forward from them, you're, you're not gonna be an entrepreneur. You're just gonna end up being, let's say like a failure. And the difference between somebody that fails and the entrepreneur is the person that just accepts that there's gonna be losses and forces themselves to keep going past it. Like I can comfortably tell you, like on a lot of the properties that we were rehabbing, I have. Come across like so many problems. And there are days that like I've just been like, holy shit, I just don't wanna deal with this right now. I'm dealing with the stuff at the company too and like, but I just tell myself like, no, this is, this is what you signed up for. Like this is exactly what you wanted. So just deal with it. And I feel like that type of mindset, like just having a thick skin about it and just re reminding yourself that you're gonna get through it and it's part of the problems that you took on and that you wanted as part of your life, that's what's gonna help you succeed.

Sean Weisbrot: That's what I'm dealing with, with the, we live to build now because. It was a podcast and now I'm turning it into an education company. So effectively I now have two companies, and actually two weeks ago I hired my first two employees for, we Live To Build. So now in the first time in my life, I have two companies with two sets of employees and some, you know, one of the employees from Nerve, the designer is helping me with the rebrand and all this for the other one. But like, I had a panic attack because I was like, I've got two companies, I've got two sets of employees. Like, holy fuck, you know? But then I was like, but actually, like, this is what I wanted. Like I, as you said, I signed up for this, I understand that I need to deal with this. Like, when I hired my first employee for a nerve, I was, I had, you know, a panic attack and then I got fine with, you know, I was okay with it. Then I hired the second person and I had a panic attack, and then I had the third person. It's like I, I had a panic attack up until like 12 or 13, and then like, you just kind of get used to it. And I don't know, maybe I'll may, maybe, you know, when my company raises 15 million and I have to raise another, or I have to hire another 80 people in the next year and a half, maybe I'll have another panic attack. I don't know. But like, that's like, that's what I'm staring at for, for this, this for nerve. But the other company is, uh, a hundred percent never gonna have any, any outside funding. Like that's, that's my goal. This company is like, it's gonna be the thing that makes cash, not the thing that makes equity. Like the other thing is for the equity, because startups, it's funny because when I first started Nerve, I had this fantasy about I'm gonna build a company. Like it's gonna be great and we're gonna have VC funding and we're gonna be worth billions of dollars. And then I started the podcast two years later, which was two, almost two years ago now. The more I interviewed people, the more I realized the majority of the people I was coming across didn't have VC funding. They had bootstrapped companies to profit. They were making, they were taking home millions of dollars a year. There was nobody else they had to share the money with if they didn't, you know, have a personal 50 50 partner or their teammates having, you know, their, their employees having equity. They were in complete control of their destiny. Nobody was forcing them to have a board of directors. No one was forcing them to sell the company or go public. Those people are fucking happy. But the majority of the, the startup founders I talked to are stressed as fuck for years on end, including myself. And the more I talked to people like you, the more I'm like, why the fuck am I still doing this other company when I could be doing, 'cause, 'cause the way that, the way that I made my money was in a services business. I didn't have software. I, I didn't even have a team. It was just me and like some guys that like could do something, oh, you could do this thing for this client. Okay, go. Like, I had contractors and, and it freaking worked. And then I had this great idea to shut it down and start a software company. So now here I am building another services business for, it's a me membership model. So of course, you know, it's more like a, it's like a community as a service kind of a thing,

Mark Beneke: which I think personally, like, I, I honestly think it's a, a beautiful model, uh, especially just because you're getting people that like, truly want this type of content, like coming, coming at them. Like I, I feel like, um. Okay. Like, uh, YouTube, YouTube has, you know, like allows you to create your channel and then based off of like how many views you start getting, like as you get people subscribing, they provide ads. But like, I feel like if they were to turn it more into like a membership model where let's say somebody ends up paying and decides, Hey, you know what, I don't necessarily want to continue getting these ads. I would rather pay for the membership on them. And like, YouTube just takes a small cut of the membership that they have or the subscription that they have with you. Like it would be more productive. 'cause then you're making sure that like the people that are watching your content, like legitimately want to be part of it. And they, they appreciate like what you're putting out. And I feel like that's a, that's the type of thing, like what you're doing right now is beautiful in my eyes. Like you are. You're creating a space for people to be able to not only receive the entertainment of being able to listen to somebody else, talk about things that they're interested in, but also be able to learn like little nuggets here and there from whatever it is that, that, uh, that we're talking about. Like, I'm sure plenty of people will listen to this and not give a shit about 90% of what I said, but maybe one person will take something that I said and actually run with it within their company. And that ends up happening with me all the time. Like whenever I listen to podcasts, a lot of the things that they end up saying in every episode, I'm like, yeah, that doesn't really relate to me, but they say one thing that just sticks with me. And you use that as almost like motivation to keep you going for a few more days or a few more weeks, you know, or like kind of tweak something within your company or try it out. And so it's, yeah, like you're, you're doing something nice that I personally like I, I agree with and. I would gladly support.

Sean Weisbrot: I appreciate that. This is kind of what I wanted the podcast to be originally, but it became something different because I realized that there were also skills people wanted to learn, like, how do you manage the finances? How do you manage the legal part? How do you incorporate, how do you manage your wealth? And so I started bringing on those kinds of guests and I, I stopped really talking about the psychology kind of, and I realized that the thing that I have that I can bring to the table that's unique that I haven't really seen in any other community is this experience in entrepreneurship and a background in psychology where you can blend the two together, where you have entrepreneurs talking about their own psychology. And I think that's really special. I mean, obviously there's other things that are part of the membership offer, but I think is really important. Um, and that's why I wanted to go back and, and do these kinds of interviews with people like yourself, with guests like yourself, because you guys have. Fucking cool experiences. And the biggest problem for a lot of entrepreneurs is they don't have access to people like you. Like I can reach someone like you quite easily and they can't. And so if they can hear from you the way you think, the way you behave, the way you act, the way you prepare, the way you plan, maybe it will help them make better decisions for their own business. And if that is, if that happens, then this is a success. And what they're paying for is valuable because I haven't seen other people doing this kind of stuff.

Mark Beneke: I agree completely. Like being able, it's almost like creating like a small community of entrepreneurs that can kind of, uh, be able to learn from each other.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah. Not just how to be better entrepreneurs, but through the psychology side, how to understand themselves so they can get past their own blockers that are preventing them from succeeding and being better leaders and better human beings.

Mark Beneke: There was a, another podcast that I, uh, was listening to for a little while, and actually, I don't know why I stopped listening to it, but. Um, it was on BiggerPockets BiggerPockets business podcasts, and they would just bring on like a lot of people that were, uh, running businesses and everything, and just like how they started and everything. Um, I think the reason why I stopped enjoying it as much was just because I felt like I could not fully relate to very many of them. Like many of them were, uh, way bigger organizations to the point where sometimes like, you just can't connect the dots as to like, okay, well how could I get from this point to, to that point, you know? And like other times, and, and even though like, you should always kind of like push yourself in that direction, but like, I felt like they needed to find like a nice middle ground, you know? And, and, uh, uh, yeah, like that all just listening to, to other people's stories. And it, that's why like, I love reading so much just 'cause just being able to, to hear somebody else's thoughts. Like, even though we don't fully realize that their, their thoughts, like whenever an author writes something like that, that went through their head, even if it's a fictional character, like. It's something that they thought about and it's something that they created themselves. And those are all thought processes, that thought processes that you could learn from. So

Sean Weisbrot: for sure, I think that's one of the problems with Ted. When I first started watching Ted, I was living in China. I was like 25. I was broke. I hadn't started in any companies yet, and I was really inspired. But then I started to feel, the more that I watched them, the more I didn't really feel connected to any of the speakers because they were like, these world award-winning, you know, Nobel Prize people and like these fantastical scientists doing these incredible things. And I, I was like, but I'm, I'm not anyone like that. I don't think like them. I don't act like them. And so like you have these wealthy people paying tens of thousands of dollars to sit there in front of them and they can connect to them mentally, but the people watching on YouTube for free, they can't connect. And so. When I went to go make my first company, it was called Idea Exchange, and it was like Ted, however, the difference was the people giving speeches were ordinary people off the street. Anyone could apply to give a speech. Of course, I was very, uh, selective of who I chose, and I ran them through my own training of how to be a better public speaker and like, you know, trying to help them with their presentation and all that. But they had the topic and the topic was something that they were living, it was their experience. Like one of the girls, uh, was American and she was talking about how both of her parents are deaf and she, she isn't. And so like, what was it like growing up with two deaf parents? And so like the goal for me was not to inspire, it was to educate. When the speakers are at a level close enough to the audience and they're educating about their experience, it's something very viral because the people feel a deep emotional connection to the speakers and their experiences and our success was incredible. On a very, very fast scale, I, I found something that killed it. I was very lucky for that. I didn't make any money. I actually went broke doing, doing it, but it was my first company and it was the most incredible experience I had. And, um, I. So, yeah, I, I like what you're talking about. And that, that's one of the reasons why, for me, the potential people watching this are probably, they've either just started a company or maybe they've got an employee or two, maybe they're making a hundred KA year or close to a hundred KA year. Maybe they wanna make a million or two or 5 million a year, but they just don't know how to get there. And so by having the guests be people that are doing a million plus dollars a year, it's not so difficult of elite mentally for them to get there and to connect with the guests.

Mark Beneke: Yeah. No, and it sounds like you're, it sounds like you're very passionate about being able to provide that education to, to everybody in general. You know, I, I, um. It sounds like obviously you would be able to take the experience that you had from that and be able to, to apply it in this direction as well, might be obviously a little bit different. 'cause I'm assuming, uh, if you were doing the presentations, they were all like in person or, or uh, like recorded through, through video or something. But

Sean Weisbrot: they were, it was a live event o offline.

Mark Beneke: Okay, okay. Yeah. So, but

Sean Weisbrot: that was in 2014 before live streaming was a thing and I was in China.

Mark Beneke: Oh, so then how did you get the person from the us They were just over there abroad.

Sean Weisbrot: They were living in America. They were living in China.

Mark Beneke: Yeah. So, so, but, um, I'm, I'm sure you'd be able to use like, those, those skills to be able to apply it onto this and still be able to accomplish that just in a wider scale if we think about it. 'cause now you're hitting the masses that, you know, everybody online, so should be more effective.

Sean Weisbrot: Yes. The difference is I've learned how to make money now. Before I knew how to educate, but I didn't know how to charge. Now I know how to educate and I know how to charge,

Mark Beneke: and I'm sure, I'm sure you'll come across more problems because of that. And I'm sure that you'll, well, even though you're ready to take them on, I'm sure they'll still be a bitch when, when, uh, when they face you.

Sean Weisbrot: The other difference now is I understand that I need a team. Before I did everything myself and, uh, with my girlfriend at the time, who we were partners in it. And because we didn't make enough money, we did everything ourselves full time. And then we had like a team of, uh, volunteers and they cycled through every month. Some were, they were present this month and not the next month, and they would come back a month later. It's like, it was, it sucked in that, in that regard. But now having this first company and having a salary from it, I'm using my salary to pay for the salaries of my second team. So that I, I've been able to offload some of the things. So actually working on the standard operating procedures for all of the things I've done for the podcast for the last two years, so that as soon as I can, I can hire another four or five people so I can get completely out of everything except for just creating content. Like that's

Mark Beneke: nice. Nice. I, I think that that's also, uh, one of the other things that, based off of the question that you asked me about recommendations to, to somebody is like learning to, learning to figure out really quickly, like when you should be delegating a task to somebody else. Like, like don't keep everything close to yourself. Like that's, I don't know, like see it as pawning it off on somebody else. That's fine. Whatever. Like, whichever way you wanna look at it. But like, you will grow more, not only like within yourself, like emotionally and, and, and, uh, mentally, but like also your company. You'll allow your company to grow more if you learn to delegate and learn to hire people to take on like different positions. So it's good that,

Sean Weisbrot: yeah, the way I see it is I'm, I'm giving them a job. So both of the guys I hired, they're 19 from the Philippines and they're in university. This is their first job. Well, for one of them, it's his first job for the other one. He already is working with someone else, and he was working part-time, and that guy was like, Hey, he's got more time. Like, do you wanna take that time? I was like, hell yeah, I'll work with this guy. So I see it as giving them an opportunity to learn new skills. Like this guy, this 19-year-old video editor comes to me and he is like, yeah, I'm a video editor. I said, no, I've seen your work. You're a producer. He's like, no, I'm a video editor. I go, no, no, no, no. I'm, I'm going to train you to become a producer. I'm going to have you make all of the decisions around the content. Like, you don't understand it yet, but I'm gonna make that happen. And he is like, okay, nice,

Mark Beneke: nice. Yeah. See, that's, that's, uh, you've learned to, to read people correctly and that's probably like the psychology background of, of yourself, like. Learning to see what, what somebody's skills really are.